hughp3

It is strange. Stranger still is like me, you think you cannot get a car and then a call and at msrp back in January. Yes I am local and no i do not flip, and yes i traded a GT3 so they could make money. I think 50%+ of the cars sold are at msrp per a poll i saw on RL?

mooty

of course sell to loyal customer. but the scenario is too simplistic. see my signature below? i bought 30-40 cars from carlsen in 10 years. and referred over 100 sales in that 10 years. i am local, hell i can WALK to their store. guess what, they decided no msrp cars.

but i am a capitalist as heart. i dont have issues with dealers selling above MSRP. i dont like it, but i understand it. if i have a watermellon in hand, you want it for $10, and a wealthier person will buy if for $20, well, sorry... i think i sell it for $20 UNLESS I HAVE ALREADY PROMISED IT TO YOU AT $10.

in my mind, it's the dealers' inventory and they can decide to sell it however they want. waht i have major issues with is they lie.

1. i called someone at PCNA (this was 2007) asking for an RS. after many calls, they said i will get one at msrp. they will call me later and be patient., 3 months later, i got called and PCNA allocated a car to ME. then carlsen called me that same day "hey, WE got a car for you".... great now i got two RS, but i only wanted on. i dont like to **** off ppl for no reason. so i called PCNA back to thank them and let them know that friendly carlsen got me a car so pls divert the other car to another enthusiast. phone went silent for a 2 min and 4 seconds (i remember vividly bc i was running and breathing hard so i stopped running to talk on phone but my stop watch is running, so i remember the time). then " i am sorry, but you said carlsen got you a car? we give them the car to sell to you. if you decine the car, the car comes back to us not carlsen, there is just one car, not two"... so. i got myself the car by begging pcna, carlsen is now claiming credit for it..... WTF..

2. a NON local dealer has RS for msrp. i said i'll take it. i will wire u the entire mount while i am on the phone. i dont have to go to the bank. i am voice authenticated. that was not good enough. he said, they have to sell to local customers.... cool. good business decison i would do the same for reason you mentioned: loyalty, future sales, future service etc. whoa, guess what, that local customer turned out to be auto gallery........ that is nOT local. they lied to me. i have no issue if they told me that my money stunk and i should go elsewhere. i have no issue they tell me i am not local and they want local business. but dont feed me lies. THAT I HAVE ISSUES WITH. and MANY dealers do that. they LIE. being a capitalist, i dont treat all my customer the same. but i will tell them LOUD AND CLEAR. i will charge them more than i charge the other guy who has been with me 10 year. when you are with me 10 years, you get the same. if they dont like my truth, by all means goto a cheaper vendor. i woudl hate to make up some lie and only get caught later when customer A compares his charge with customer B. and i am talking about selling them IDENTICAL items. i will charge different amount based on what i think of the customer total profit potential. BUT I TELL THE CUSTOMER i am REAMING him. so he can get ready and flex the sphincter. i dont lie about it. profit is fine, lying is not ok

totally with you.
price is price, i am the customer, it's my money, i decided to pay or not pay. i just hate being lied to.

QUOTE=kyrocks;13403703]However, I was forced to sign a right of first refusal agreement for 2 years. I don't really care because I'm enjoying the car and don't care what the "market" does.[/QUOTE]


LOL, yes...
to get this far in life to afford a p car, getting out of a little contract called first right of refusal is not that hard. some ppl even get off death row. i place little value an any contract.

for giggles, as u can tell i have lots of free time. i looked at the right of refusal at the dealership. called our counsel and have them draft an agreement as well, in 2 years dealer shall buy subject car back at mkt or price i paid whichever was higher. of course it is useless, but hey, it was fun. i presented that to them and you should see the GM's face. oh it was priceless.

"you need to decide soon, i am headed out to get my kid from school. i expected the doc to be fully executed when i am back with my kid and pizza... "

and max is a MESSY EATER. he has been insructed to find a car with light interior to enjoy pizza and a coke filled to the brim. max was 4 YO......

they waived my first right of refusal and got everythign done before max dived into the car with pizza.

BUT I ALWAYS TELL THEM FIRST, before i strike.
"my kid is coming with pizza. pls get things done faster...."

max is now 7, he sucks at baseball. but loves to play catch in showrooms. i suck at throwing and i throw hard.....

DONT GET MAD GET EVEN.

sorry but these things really rub me the wrong way and bring out the worst in me!

TRAKCAR

Bull****. Dont repeat crap from an interweb blog.

No kidding

porsche39

Dealers taking 911r allocations from 918 owners???? Selling above msrp??? This guy has a 918 and many other cars he knows his !@It Watch from 1:30 on for 10 sec

Keith Verges - Dallas

O
M
G


Buyers are at fault too for paying the money. Hard to blame dealers for playing folks who vote with their pocketbooks. Lots of other options out there like 570S, Viper ACR. Z06. Huracan. If you can't live without the RS then just man up and pay.

Reminds me of why some gorgeous women are biatches. Because they can be.

porsche39

1. We only sell msrp to loyal customers. Would you like to become a customer? If so you can purchase a Panamera and we will sell you an msrp allocation..........

2. We have a list of 15 customers but we are taking bids and the highest bid wins it starts a 50k over..........

3. We would like to keep the car local for service fees. BS aside from the people that track their cars how many people will see more than 2 or 3 services verses a 20% commission. Right of refusal contract soon follows this and doesn't porsche have prepaid maint now maybe does not apply to gt3rs??? attempt to control market price.

4. My favorite yes we have several allocations but we are asking market value would you like to bid on an Oct or Dec build?

Ddesimone17

Porsche39 ,

I was at the annual Porsche parade last week at jay peak vt. I met and spoke to klaus zellmer the new Ceo of pcna about this very topic because I too would like to purchase a new RS.
He emphatically said that Porsche will not tolerate dealers marking up new cars , (used was a different story ) and they would take corrective action if they aware of the situation

Haku

My 2 cents. The buyers own reputation, relationship, and history with the brand and dealership may have as much to do with an outcome as a dealers varying reasons for selling. Of course there are ethical boundaries that dealers cross and customers justifiably object to but I do think that a degree of responsibility lies with market forces which we all contribute to. Blatant flippers in my book are as much to blame as unscrupulous dealers. To put the blame squarely on a single entity whether it be a dealer or for that matter PCNA may not be fair.

porsche39

PM sent.

ipse dixit

PCNA knows about this. In fact, in many ways, they are very pleased about it.

PCNA now uses RS allocations as a back-door way to provide "trunk money" -- which never shows up as a line-item on the balance sheet. Good for corporate profits. Good for dealers because they now get the trunk money they need to sell those 2016 Panameras.

PCNA cannot do anything to dealers that charge markups. At least not in the US. Against franchise laws. And good luck showing, much less proving, collusion amongst dealers.

Loyalty means nothing. For Porsche. Or you (and I'm using "you" figuratively). You buy Porsches because they make good cars. We all do. Porsche stops making good cars, you stop buying. As well as you should. That's not loyalty. That's being smart. Porsche knows this. Which is why loyalty is about as important to them as the last buyer that bought a car.

Spend your time more constructively.

STG

And with post, case closed, nothing else to say. The most realistic and factual response yet.

Keith Verges - Dallas

In many states the dealer lobby has created very strong laws that "protect" dealers from big bad manufacturers. Tesla has been fighting these laws for years and still can't "sell" cars in Texas for example. Dealers can brush off many efforts by manufacturers .

But at the end of the day it's a free market economy. Folks have been trying to manipulate widget prices forever. Bring an antitrust case.

kyrocks

Mitch?

Z356

Porsche39: I for one appreciated your post. And I think many
of us would be interested in knowing more about that 'list' you
are privy to. But I would like clarification from you & others on
the profit that dealers make on these cars. When I ordered my
'12 Boxster Spyder, it was at an invoice + pricing. So I became
intimately familiar with the dealer profit margins then in effect.
And at that time it was 10% of base & 15% of options. To my
knowledge, PCNA has never disclosed 'holdbacks', or any other
type of additional compensation to dealers, based on sales volume
or other special incentives to move certain hard-to-sell models.
They may exist & they might vary from year to year. But that
is a $ figure that no Porsche salesman, and perhaps not even
the GM of the store, might know! That 'holdback', if you want
to call it that, is usually kept very private by the dealer principal.
And in all of my years of hanging around Porsche dealers, that
additional compensation (if/when it has existed) has NEVER been
revealed to me or anyone else (non-principal) that I know of. So
a very different system than the traditional US dealer model used
by Ford or GM. Or even Audi's...of which I became very familiar
when Audi USA allocated the RS7 to me personally & I decided
on what dealer to work with...resulting in a very favorable invoice
pricing on this very 'hot' model! They do have a 'holdback', but
accomplish this by having a lesser figure between invoice & MSRP
for their dealers.

So for the sake of consistency, we will talk about dealer profit
strictly as the difference between MSRP & Invoice. I just checked
with Edmunds. They report that for a 2016 991, dealer profit
margin on the 'base price' is still 10%. So dealer invoice is
$158,310 on the $175,900 base price of a 2016 991 gt3 RS.
Options are still listed with at a 15% dealer markup.



Can we confirm from others who have intimate knowledge of
the current dealer pricing what is the actual truth re: invoice
vs MSRP at Porsche dealers in the US? I just hate to see the
20% dealer profit figured bandied about in our forum if that
number is not correct!



Saludos,
Eduardo
Scottsdale

STG

^^^ Great point. Missed that one. 20% is definitely NOT the case.