2016 GT3RS allocations the truth please read.
06-25-2016, 05:56 PM
#91
Burning Brakes
Porsche39: But I would like clarification from you & others on the profit that dealers make on these cars.
Can we confirm from others who have intimate knowledge of
the current dealer pricing what is the actual truth re: invoice
vs MSRP at Porsche dealers in the US? I just hate to see the
20% dealer profit figured bandied about in our forum if that
number is not correct!
Can we confirm from others who have intimate knowledge of
the current dealer pricing what is the actual truth re: invoice
vs MSRP at Porsche dealers in the US? I just hate to see the
20% dealer profit figured bandied about in our forum if that
number is not correct!
The current published dealer margins are 10% of base and 15% of options, however that is where the story begins, not ends. Years ago, the published margin was 15% across the board by the way. Porsche, like most manufacturers, in response to the widespread publication of dealer margins, chose to start compensating dealers with remuneration in forms other than gross vehicle margin.
My information is that dealers receive specific model targets and overall sales targets which are compensated with monthly and quarterly bonuses paid by PCNA to the dealer principal. Additionally, there are often model specific incentives to move slow selling cars. I do not know how much the various alternate forms of payment add to the gross margin, but I am confident that the aggregate gross margin is north of 15%. There are also non-monetary forms of effective compensation, such as additional award allocations of prized models to dealers who achieve sales goals. I have personally seen dealers punch sales tickets early on cars to make the numbers that result in the higher monthly or quarterly incentives. Bottom line- 20% may well be too high a figure, but the reported Edmunds numbers are too low.
06-25-2016, 07:24 PM
#93
06-25-2016, 07:38 PM
#94
This might sound crazy but I think a situation where dealers take out of area/state deposits and actually do the right thing by adhering to the order of a list and in turn sell for MSRP may be just as bad as the stealerships. In this scenario a local long time customer maybe getting passed over. With the cars selling at the higher prices and with the VIP program there is less inventory; the cars along with the brand are valued higher. Allot of these cars are not daily drivers and the fact that they retain their value is a plus. This however doesn't help the enthusiast who just wants to drive the car. Anyway, the word that comes to mind for this thread and in particular the OP's dilemma and the dilemma for most playing this twisted game is transparency. The worst dealers are not the ones who charge premium but the ones who take the deposits with no intention of really following any list or any sort of agreed price. Its horrible that some sit on list(s) for years waiting and waiting and the whole time have no chance of getting a car. Its best to know where you stand one way or the other to be able to make decision. Pay extra, continue to wait or move on. This must be even worse for the true loyal customer who has been doing business with Porsche and a specific dealership for years. An example on maybe a company that does things the "right" way based on my experience is Hermes (i'm already preparing for the worst with comments). About a year and a half ago I wanted to get my wife a nice bag for her birthday. She wanted a Birkin bag from Hermes (I'm sure allot of you reading this know what I'm talking about and share my pain) so we went to the Hermes store in Palm Beach walked in and said we would like to see the Berkin bags you have for sale and got a very strange look. We were told they did not have any in stock but there were many other bags in stock in many colors to choose from. Think of this as Birkin being an RS and the "other" bags regular 911s So we picked out a nice expensive non-berkin bag instead. The saleslady who was actually quite nice pointed out that Hermes also had allot of other great products like Jewelry, scarfs etc. Think of this like parts Dept and Service. She asked if they should at some point get a Birkin in is there a certain color or colors my wife would be interested in and she would call us so she took the information. Just as I finished paying the saleslady next to us opened a box for another customer and it was a Birkin. My wife and I looked at each other said nothing but both thinking I thought there were no Birkins. When I got home I thought to myself this is crazy I should be able to get one of these bags. I called 3 stores Vegas, Miami and Cleveland. It was crazy they all said the same thing. We do not have the bag and that their best advice would be to work with our local store and develop a "relationship" with our salesperson. Ok so now I checked Ebay and some other preowned handbag sites (sound more familiar) and I could have the Birkin the next day but at a premium aka over list. Sorry I am getting to the end of this I promise. So after a few more visits to the Palm Beach Hermes Boutique and another pricey bag purchase out of the blue my wife was left a message on her cell phone by the saleslady who had been helping us that they have a Birkin bag which was in the first of the 2 colors we requested. The moral of this story; there is none. I spent allot of money, don't have an RS and no matter what I do I can't seem to make my wife 100% happy.
06-25-2016, 08:09 PM
#95
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
This might sound crazy but I think a situation where dealers take out of area/state deposits and actually do the right thing by adhering to the order of a list and in turn sell for MSRP may be just as bad as the stealerships. In this scenario a local long time customer maybe getting passed over. With the cars selling at the higher prices and with the VIP program there is less inventory; the cars along with the brand are valued higher. Allot of these cars are not daily drivers and the fact that they retain their value is a plus. This however doesn't help the enthusiast who just wants to drive the car.
Anyway, the word that comes to mind for this thread and in particular the OP's dilemma and the dilemma for most playing this twisted game is transparency. The worst dealers are not the ones who charge premium but the ones who take the deposits with no intention of really following any list or any sort of agreed price. Its horrible that some sit on list(s) for years waiting and waiting and the whole time have no chance of getting a car. Its best to know where you stand one way or the other to be able to make decision. Pay extra, continue to wait or move on. This must be even worse for the true loyal customer who has been doing business with Porsche and a specific dealership for years.
An example on maybe a company that does things the "right" way based on my experience is Hermes (i'm already preparing for the worst with comments). About a year and a half ago I wanted to get my wife a nice bag for her birthday. She wanted a Birkin bag from Hermes (I'm sure allot of you reading this know what I'm talking about and share my pain) so we went to the Hermes store in Palm Beach walked in and said we would like to see the Berkin bags you have for sale and got a very strange look. We were told they did not have any in stock but there were many other bags in stock in many colors to choose from. Think of this as Birkin being an RS and the "other" bags regular 911s So we picked out a nice expensive non-berkin bag instead. The saleslady who was actually quite nice pointed out that Hermes also had allot of other great products like Jewelry, scarfs etc. Think of this like parts Dept and Service. She asked if they should at some point get a Birkin in is there a certain color or colors my wife would be interested in and she would call us so she took the information. Just as I finished paying the saleslady next to us opened a box for another customer and it was a Birkin. My wife and I looked at each other said nothing but both thinking I thought there were no Birkins.
When I got home I thought to myself this is crazy I should be able to get one of these bags. I called 3 stores Vegas, Miami and Cleveland. It was crazy they all said the same thing. We do not have the bag and that their best advice would be to work with our local store and develop a "relationship" with our salesperson. Ok so now I checked Ebay and some other preowned handbag sites (sound more familiar) and I could have the Birkin the next day but at a premium aka over list.
Sorry I am getting to the end of this I promise. So after a few more visits to the Palm Beach Hermes Boutique and another pricey bag purchase out of the blue my wife was left a message on her cell phone by the saleslady who had been helping us that they have a Birkin bag which was in the first of the 2 colors we requested.
The moral of this story; there is none. I spent allot of money, don't have an RS and no matter what I do I can't seem to make my wife 100% happy.
Anyway, the word that comes to mind for this thread and in particular the OP's dilemma and the dilemma for most playing this twisted game is transparency. The worst dealers are not the ones who charge premium but the ones who take the deposits with no intention of really following any list or any sort of agreed price. Its horrible that some sit on list(s) for years waiting and waiting and the whole time have no chance of getting a car. Its best to know where you stand one way or the other to be able to make decision. Pay extra, continue to wait or move on. This must be even worse for the true loyal customer who has been doing business with Porsche and a specific dealership for years.
An example on maybe a company that does things the "right" way based on my experience is Hermes (i'm already preparing for the worst with comments). About a year and a half ago I wanted to get my wife a nice bag for her birthday. She wanted a Birkin bag from Hermes (I'm sure allot of you reading this know what I'm talking about and share my pain) so we went to the Hermes store in Palm Beach walked in and said we would like to see the Berkin bags you have for sale and got a very strange look. We were told they did not have any in stock but there were many other bags in stock in many colors to choose from. Think of this as Birkin being an RS and the "other" bags regular 911s So we picked out a nice expensive non-berkin bag instead. The saleslady who was actually quite nice pointed out that Hermes also had allot of other great products like Jewelry, scarfs etc. Think of this like parts Dept and Service. She asked if they should at some point get a Birkin in is there a certain color or colors my wife would be interested in and she would call us so she took the information. Just as I finished paying the saleslady next to us opened a box for another customer and it was a Birkin. My wife and I looked at each other said nothing but both thinking I thought there were no Birkins.
When I got home I thought to myself this is crazy I should be able to get one of these bags. I called 3 stores Vegas, Miami and Cleveland. It was crazy they all said the same thing. We do not have the bag and that their best advice would be to work with our local store and develop a "relationship" with our salesperson. Ok so now I checked Ebay and some other preowned handbag sites (sound more familiar) and I could have the Birkin the next day but at a premium aka over list.
Sorry I am getting to the end of this I promise. So after a few more visits to the Palm Beach Hermes Boutique and another pricey bag purchase out of the blue my wife was left a message on her cell phone by the saleslady who had been helping us that they have a Birkin bag which was in the first of the 2 colors we requested.
The moral of this story; there is none. I spent allot of money, don't have an RS and no matter what I do I can't seem to make my wife 100% happy.
herme is right in taking care of repeat high dollar customer
herme store is wrong in that they should just tell u, if u spent xxx, u will get birkin.
I was able to get ss Daytona at MSRP and Lange 31 at MSRP. be
c they told me what to do and if I did that, then I get what I want.
they told me how I will get kicked in the ball so I got ready for it, took the kick and got what I wanted. while I don't like he kick I appreciated and understood the warning.
think of se ding kids to private P 60000 a year. but u know The tuition, u chose to go or not go. now if they told u after u attend then that is not righ
but no moral is it
06-25-2016, 08:30 PM
#96
Burning Brakes
good one
herme is right in taking care of repeat high dollar customer
herme store is wrong in that they should just tell u, if u spent xxx, u will get birkin.
I was able to get ss Daytona at MSRP and Lange 31 at MSRP. be
c they told me what to do and if I did that, then I get what I want.
they told me how I will get kicked in the ball so I got ready for it, took the kick and got what I wanted. while I don't like he kick I appreciated and understood the warning.
think of se ding kids to private P 60000 a year. but u know The tuition, u chose to go or not go. now if they told u after u attend then that is not righ
but no moral is it
herme is right in taking care of repeat high dollar customer
herme store is wrong in that they should just tell u, if u spent xxx, u will get birkin.
I was able to get ss Daytona at MSRP and Lange 31 at MSRP. be
c they told me what to do and if I did that, then I get what I want.
they told me how I will get kicked in the ball so I got ready for it, took the kick and got what I wanted. while I don't like he kick I appreciated and understood the warning.
think of se ding kids to private P 60000 a year. but u know The tuition, u chose to go or not go. now if they told u after u attend then that is not righ
but no moral is it
06-25-2016, 08:46 PM
#97
Rennlist Member
Porsches are expensive cars, RS models even more so. This means that the retail buyer of same must have at least some financial success in life in order to afford one. Now then, for those on this forum that want a RS and are essentially "demanding" that PCNA sell them one at MSRP, my question for you is this:
Whatever it is that you do to earn your money, be it sell a product, bill by the hour or otherwise, do you sell your product/time/service at prices that you determine to be as high as the market will bear or do you simply let your clients dictate this?
If you fall in the former camp, congratulations, you're a free-market capitalist and the last time I checked, that is the system we have in America. If you fall in the latter camp, I can guess which posts you like best here.
Whatever it is that you do to earn your money, be it sell a product, bill by the hour or otherwise, do you sell your product/time/service at prices that you determine to be as high as the market will bear or do you simply let your clients dictate this?
If you fall in the former camp, congratulations, you're a free-market capitalist and the last time I checked, that is the system we have in America. If you fall in the latter camp, I can guess which posts you like best here.
06-25-2016, 08:49 PM
#98
Nordschleife Master
This might sound crazy but I think a situation where dealers take out of area/state deposits and actually do the right thing by adhering to the order of a list and in turn sell for MSRP may be just as bad as the stealerships. In this scenario a local long time customer maybe getting passed over. With the cars selling at the higher prices and with the VIP program there is less inventory; the cars along with the brand are valued higher. Allot of these cars are not daily drivers and the fact that they retain their value is a plus. This however doesn't help the enthusiast who just wants to drive the car.
Anyway, the word that comes to mind for this thread and in particular the OP's dilemma and the dilemma for most playing this twisted game is transparency. The worst dealers are not the ones who charge premium but the ones who take the deposits with no intention of really following any list or any sort of agreed price. Its horrible that some sit on list(s) for years waiting and waiting and the whole time have no chance of getting a car. Its best to know where you stand one way or the other to be able to make decision. Pay extra, continue to wait or move on. This must be even worse for the true loyal customer who has been doing business with Porsche and a specific dealership for years.
An example on maybe a company that does things the "right" way based on my experience is Hermes (i'm already preparing for the worst with comments). About a year and a half ago I wanted to get my wife a nice bag for her birthday. She wanted a Birkin bag from Hermes (I'm sure allot of you reading this know what I'm talking about and share my pain) so we went to the Hermes store in Palm Beach walked in and said we would like to see the Berkin bags you have for sale and got a very strange look. We were told they did not have any in stock but there were many other bags in stock in many colors to choose from. Think of this as Birkin being an RS and the "other" bags regular 911s So we picked out a nice expensive non-berkin bag instead. The saleslady who was actually quite nice pointed out that Hermes also had allot of other great products like Jewelry, scarfs etc. Think of this like parts Dept and Service. She asked if they should at some point get a Birkin in is there a certain color or colors my wife would be interested in and she would call us so she took the information. Just as I finished paying the saleslady next to us opened a box for another customer and it was a Birkin. My wife and I looked at each other said nothing but both thinking I thought there were no Birkins.
When I got home I thought to myself this is crazy I should be able to get one of these bags. I called 3 stores Vegas, Miami and Cleveland. It was crazy they all said the same thing. We do not have the bag and that their best advice would be to work with our local store and develop a "relationship" with our salesperson. Ok so now I checked Ebay and some other preowned handbag sites (sound more familiar) and I could have the Birkin the next day but at a premium aka over list.
Sorry I am getting to the end of this I promise. So after a few more visits to the Palm Beach Hermes Boutique and another pricey bag purchase out of the blue my wife was left a message on her cell phone by the saleslady who had been helping us that they have a Birkin bag which was in the first of the 2 colors we requested.
The moral of this story; there is none. I spent allot of money, don't have an RS and no matter what I do I can't seem to make my wife 100% happy.
Anyway, the word that comes to mind for this thread and in particular the OP's dilemma and the dilemma for most playing this twisted game is transparency. The worst dealers are not the ones who charge premium but the ones who take the deposits with no intention of really following any list or any sort of agreed price. Its horrible that some sit on list(s) for years waiting and waiting and the whole time have no chance of getting a car. Its best to know where you stand one way or the other to be able to make decision. Pay extra, continue to wait or move on. This must be even worse for the true loyal customer who has been doing business with Porsche and a specific dealership for years.
An example on maybe a company that does things the "right" way based on my experience is Hermes (i'm already preparing for the worst with comments). About a year and a half ago I wanted to get my wife a nice bag for her birthday. She wanted a Birkin bag from Hermes (I'm sure allot of you reading this know what I'm talking about and share my pain) so we went to the Hermes store in Palm Beach walked in and said we would like to see the Berkin bags you have for sale and got a very strange look. We were told they did not have any in stock but there were many other bags in stock in many colors to choose from. Think of this as Birkin being an RS and the "other" bags regular 911s So we picked out a nice expensive non-berkin bag instead. The saleslady who was actually quite nice pointed out that Hermes also had allot of other great products like Jewelry, scarfs etc. Think of this like parts Dept and Service. She asked if they should at some point get a Birkin in is there a certain color or colors my wife would be interested in and she would call us so she took the information. Just as I finished paying the saleslady next to us opened a box for another customer and it was a Birkin. My wife and I looked at each other said nothing but both thinking I thought there were no Birkins.
When I got home I thought to myself this is crazy I should be able to get one of these bags. I called 3 stores Vegas, Miami and Cleveland. It was crazy they all said the same thing. We do not have the bag and that their best advice would be to work with our local store and develop a "relationship" with our salesperson. Ok so now I checked Ebay and some other preowned handbag sites (sound more familiar) and I could have the Birkin the next day but at a premium aka over list.
Sorry I am getting to the end of this I promise. So after a few more visits to the Palm Beach Hermes Boutique and another pricey bag purchase out of the blue my wife was left a message on her cell phone by the saleslady who had been helping us that they have a Birkin bag which was in the first of the 2 colors we requested.
The moral of this story; there is none. I spent allot of money, don't have an RS and no matter what I do I can't seem to make my wife 100% happy.
Btw, you never told us...did you go back and by the birkin?
06-25-2016, 09:17 PM
#99
Race Director
I really don't like paying over MSRP for any car, but the market is what it is. The dealers are selling over MSRP because people are willing to pay over MSRP. If there really isn't a market at > MSRP prices, and dealers are holding out for top dollar, eventually the market will adjust.
If you want the car bad enough, you have to pay market price. Not sure why the dealers are the bad guys. If you don't like the price, don't pay it. I don't think Porsche should police it either.
If you want the car bad enough, you have to pay market price. Not sure why the dealers are the bad guys. If you don't like the price, don't pay it. I don't think Porsche should police it either.
06-25-2016, 09:35 PM
#101
Rennlist Member
Worth every penny as it bought me an entire weekend of peace and quiet. Actually more like day and a half. Still worth it.
06-25-2016, 09:36 PM
#102
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
high school
42 tuition
add books and room board
after school activity
wife calculated to 55
I told kiddies get full ride to college. bc daddy won't be paying
MIT now at 40 or so .
room
and board was 30000 when I was there 20
years ago. I'm sure more now. scary
42 tuition
add books and room board
after school activity
wife calculated to 55
I told kiddies get full ride to college. bc daddy won't be paying
MIT now at 40 or so .
room
and board was 30000 when I was there 20
years ago. I'm sure more now. scary
06-25-2016, 09:53 PM
#103
Platinum Dealership
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
This might sound crazy but I think a situation where dealers take out of area/state deposits and actually do the right thing by adhering to the order of a list and in turn sell for MSRP may be just as bad as the stealerships. In this scenario a local long time customer maybe getting passed over. With the cars selling at the higher prices and with the VIP program there is less inventory; the cars along with the brand are valued higher. Allot of these cars are not daily drivers and the fact that they retain their value is a plus. This however doesn't help the enthusiast who just wants to drive the car. Anyway, the word that comes to mind for this thread and in particular the OP's dilemma and the dilemma for most playing this twisted game is transparency. The worst dealers are not the ones who charge premium but the ones who take the deposits with no intention of really following any list or any sort of agreed price. Its horrible that some sit on list(s) for years waiting and waiting and the whole time have no chance of getting a car. Its best to know where you stand one way or the other to be able to make decision. Pay extra, continue to wait or move on. This must be even worse for the true loyal customer who has been doing business with Porsche and a specific dealership for years. An example on maybe a company that does things the "right" way based on my experience is Hermes (i'm already preparing for the worst with comments). About a year and a half ago I wanted to get my wife a nice bag for her birthday. She wanted a Birkin bag from Hermes (I'm sure allot of you reading this know what I'm talking about and share my pain) so we went to the Hermes store in Palm Beach walked in and said we would like to see the Berkin bags you have for sale and got a very strange look. We were told they did not have any in stock but there were many other bags in stock in many colors to choose from. Think of this as Birkin being an RS and the "other" bags regular 911s So we picked out a nice expensive non-berkin bag instead. The saleslady who was actually quite nice pointed out that Hermes also had allot of other great products like Jewelry, scarfs etc. Think of this like parts Dept and Service. She asked if they should at some point get a Birkin in is there a certain color or colors my wife would be interested in and she would call us so she took the information. Just as I finished paying the saleslady next to us opened a box for another customer and it was a Birkin. My wife and I looked at each other said nothing but both thinking I thought there were no Birkins. When I got home I thought to myself this is crazy I should be able to get one of these bags. I called 3 stores Vegas, Miami and Cleveland. It was crazy they all said the same thing. We do not have the bag and that their best advice would be to work with our local store and develop a "relationship" with our salesperson. Ok so now I checked Ebay and some other preowned handbag sites (sound more familiar) and I could have the Birkin the next day but at a premium aka over list. Sorry I am getting to the end of this I promise. So after a few more visits to the Palm Beach Hermes Boutique and another pricey bag purchase out of the blue my wife was left a message on her cell phone by the saleslady who had been helping us that they have a Birkin bag which was in the first of the 2 colors we requested. The moral of this story; there is none. I spent allot of money, don't have an RS and no matter what I do I can't seem to make my wife 100% happy.
Haha
06-25-2016, 10:17 PM
#104
Porsches are expensive cars, RS models even more so. This means that the retail buyer of same must have at least some financial success in life in order to afford one. Now then, for those on this forum that want a RS and are essentially "demanding" that PCNA sell them one at MSRP, my question for you is this: Whatever it is that you do to earn your money, be it sell a product, bill by the hour or otherwise, do you sell your product/time/service at prices that you determine to be as high as the market will bear or do you simply let your clients dictate this? If you fall in the former camp, congratulations, you're a free-market capitalist and the last time I checked, that is the system we have in America. If you fall in the latter camp, I can guess which posts you like best here.
As a business owner, the day that someone dictates what I sell my product for is a sad day...
Don't like how I'm selling, don't buy it.
06-25-2016, 10:35 PM
#105
Race Director
Maybe someone should contact Klaus Zellmer and let him know what the word on the street is. Demand seems to be exceeding supply for the GT cars. I'm sure he'd appreciate the insider info, just like the revelation that some dealers are asking over MSRP, or buying allocations off other dealers for a premium. I bet he'll be so furious that you'll see action taken first thing Monday morning 