shaytun

+1 with everything Mike says so far. That being said I always find it silly to bring up gun related topics on this forum, which only starts a political discussion. Gun problems won't be be solved on here, and truthfully has no place here. It detracts from what the purpose of this forum is. And please don't say that it is relevant to discuss how well a gun fits in the door pocket is relevant.

008

The issue with registration for most Is That there is a belief it will be the first step to confiscation. It's easy to say that's an absurd conclusion but it's also easy to say assuming the government wouldn't use that list nefariously is absurd. If I don't have to do a background check on some one I sell a car, knife ,fertilizer, propane tank, pressurer cooker, etc and register that new owner with a centralized data base why would I have to do the same with a legal firearm?

http://www.holsterhero.com/the-absol...d-carry-guide/

dark knight

well it does fit in the door pocket, and I also need to add, LWBs have exposed hardware that may scratch a holstered weapon kept between the door sill and seat

SamFromTX

With all due respect Mike but it did happen before, relatively recently. Scroll down to "City and local response". Had I lived in New Orleans then, I would have been pissed, and terrified.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critic...ricane_Katrina

shaytun

LOL, okay, problem solved.

Mike in CA

I wasn't aware of that particular instance, Sam. I would also have been appalled had I lived there. Apparently, however, laws have been passed at the state and federal level to prevent this kind of action in the future. Maybe if I had originally said, such an action would realistically not be allowed to stand.....

I understand the fears people have about this kind of thing but there needs to be a balance, IMHO, between the fears about what could happen and the everyday realities and results of our policies. I wonder if that balance is being achieved.

MACH 86

In the seventies and eighties when I was working I used to carry a pistol in my car. I would be driving home late at night and felt I needed it. It was the conversation with all the people I worked with. We all had them. Started to think about it and the fact that I had a gun made me feel bigger that I really was. I felt that I would stay and fight rather than try to leave a bad situation. I did not want to think later that I had just killed someone. So I took the gun out of the car. I am older now and 30 years later. Times and things have really changed!!!! There is an equalizer in my car, truck, night stand and some times in my belt. Just my observation. Lately the 1911 is my best friend.

awew911

Mike,
I have a good friend that was involved in a shooting. After being shot 7 times (once in his face), in his words, it made him "angry". The dirtbag did not survive. My friend did. The 'anger' at the time is what pushed him on (among other things.) So sometime, anger is justified as a cause for response. Every situation is different. Hot heads need not apply.

When I first moved to FL from NY, I thought it was crazy to drive around armed or to carry all the time.

After riding with patrol and K9 for a few years, you see the other side. You see innocent people who never thought they'd be victims of a crime. I've seen car jacking victims shot after giving their keys. Compliance may not insure survival. If someone points a gun at me, I assume they mean to kill me. One needs to have the mean to respond accordingly.

Statistically, it won't happen to most of us. Statistically, my house won't burn down either, nor do I expect it to, though I have a couple fire extinguishers around.

Once you are comfortable with a firearm and use it on a regular basis, it simply becomes another tool in the tool belt and a means to stop a threat. That is all.

Situational awareness is primary to avoid confrontation. The gun is not the next solution. It may, however, be the last solution. Sometime "hands on" works better.

When one carries daily, you become more aware of your surrounding and have a greater obligation to avoid trouble. With so many CCW's in Florida, and considering the average person, you would think there would be a heck of a lot more CCW 'anger' incidents, but there aren't. Odd, I think.

So for me, it's better to have it and not need it, then need it and not have it.

And besides... guns are fun to shoot.

Zucc

The Beretta Nano fits well and is easy to conceal too.

Mike in CA

I just meant that I hoped dark knight never found himself in a situation where he had to use a gun to save his life. I understand that getting shot makes you angry AND scared; I was shot in the chest. Since I was 19 at the time, wasn't carrying a gun, and the shooter was a county sheriff there wasn't much I could have done about it anyway. The out of court settlement did pay for my first new car (a '73 Lotus Europa Special just to tie into a car reference), but that's a whole other story and I digress....

I've said repeatedly that I have no problem with guns, in fact I like guns, and they ARE fun to shoot. I'd own more than I do if my wife didn't absolutely hate them; the arguments we had years ago over my owning firearms were some of the most heated of our marriage. I fully understand the rationale you use for owning guns; I've used most of them myself, with her.

Having said that, I also believe that there is a societal cost associated with the number and free availability of guns in our country. It doesn't mean that I think guns should be outlawed or taken away from law abiding citizens but I do think there is more that could be done to minimize those costs.

33,000 people are killed in gun related incidents every year in the US. That's a big number. Can all of those people be saved? Of course not. But it seems that we ought to be trying to do something. Recently, I've been hearing that the issue isn't guns but mental health. That's fine, and maybe it's true, but no political capital or additional resources are being expended to address THAT issue either.

The first step in dealing with any problem is to acknowledge that a problem exists. It seems that many gun owners are unwilling to make even that acknowledgement, and given that they have a vested interest in insuring that something they're passionate about is seen in a positive light, that's puzzling to me.

Have a good weekend.

SamFromTX

I agree with you, just wanted to bring up an old incident. I love guns and have many and I further agree with you about some loopholes that need to be addressed, specifically gun show private sales. I'll give you an example. I had a Sig P250 compact that I decided to sell. I went to a local gun show. The first person that was interested looked shady to me. I realize I judged the person which is something I try to never do. Because of my great concern, I quoted him $800 and asked for a certified check, citing some BS reasons (you can get it new for $400). I simply didn't want to sell it to him. The second person was an older cleaner cut person (again, I judged) to whom I sold the gun for $300 in cash. That loophole, in my opinion, needs to be closed. I am fully aware that many disagree with me and that is fine, I am merely posting my opinion. Criminals do not go through a background check. Criminals do not apply for concealed weapon permits. They steal guns, buy them on the street, or from avenues that do not require a background check.
PS: thank you for sharing your experience of being shot, must have been scary as hell for a 19 year old. Glad you survived

008

Mike, I completely agree we should work to move the gun arguments into a positive light. I think many are defensive right off the bat because all of the so called "solutions" are seen as infringements and have mostly been proven not to be effective. That said a lot of people think the private sale of firearms should be restricted among two law abiding citizens, I disagree but can understand how an intelligent educated person could take the other side. A lot of folks also think medical records, especially those associated to mental illness should be opened up to the point of at least being a part of the back ground check. I'm less concerned about this one and if there was a way for a private citizen to pay a fee and do a background check on someone without the sale being registered I could probably be persuaded on both.

What do you suggest be done? Outside of a centralized database, closing the "gun show loop hole", centralizing and making medical records public, bans, etc where do you see the gaps in the current laws?

dark knight

you want a reduction in gun violence, it requires an overall reduction in crime, and keep in mind much of the "gun violence" is happening far from where you live. Your risk is from the criminal who targets you in your own area. The solution simple, has nothing to do with guns, first control border, second deport criminals, third keep criminals in jail and lastly sterilize them, this would work. The stupidity of our society is to keep pressuring the people who are doing the right thing to change instead of dealing with the problem people.
As for crazy people doing crazy things, cant stop that, take away guns they use a knife or build a bomb, only way to stop them is to have gun yourself

Mike in CA

Thanks, Sam. It was indeed an "experience".

It's a tough nut, 008, and I'm no expert on the subject; I just have opinions like everyone else. But IMHO, the first and most important step is for both sides to stop demonizing each other so that we can have a realistic and rational national conversation. One example, not related to the gun death rate but it shows how skewed and inflexible the gun discussion has become. Recently a bill was proposed in Congress to ban the importation of new ivory into the US because not only are elephants being killed off at an alarming rate but the ivory is being taken by terrorist groups who are selling it to fund their activities in Africa. It initially had bipartisan support and should have been a slam dunk on several levels but the NRA decided it would infringe on the rights of legitimate hunters and successfully lobbied to kill it. It just seems to me that as soon as the word "gun" enters the conversation people have a knee jerk reaction instead of considering the actual facts. That has to stop.

The biggest gaps in the current laws, from what I've read, are that they aren't consistent from state to state, most importantly regarding background checks, and they aren't enforced very well due to inadequate resources and repeated emasculation by some legislatures. Again, I'm no expert, but it seems like we should at least be talking about this more intelligently.

And no, we're not going to stop every criminal and the clever ones will find ways around whatever system is in place, but that shouldn't be an excuse to do nothing. If we accept that argument, then there's little point in having laws about almost any kind of criminal activity. My $.02, again....

008

Understood, I've just yet to hear a sound argument for gun control/regulation that will actually reduce crime.

Hunting is another hotly debated topic with most non hunters having no real understanding of the practice and it's probably best we don't get into that here. ��