New PCCB and Track days – Facts Feedback Thread
#406
Rennlist Member
#407
Three Wheelin'
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Originally Posted by SanDiegoDavid
Either refurbishing or ST kit Josh is using. ST kit is 20K less than OEM!
#408
#409
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#410
Former Vendor
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Install RB-CCM brake kit for low initial and replacement cost and race your Porsche like ZR1 and Viper ACR-E racers.
http://www.racingbrake.com/RB-CCB-Sy...ccb-por-01.htm
Forget about refurbishing them (in cost or its reliability), and replace the worn out rotor with a brand new CCM rotor (by GM-Brembo) costing $1400 - $1800 that are actually cheaper to run than iron rotor when factor in the durability (3-5 times longer than iron)
Front CCM Rotor: http://www.racingbrake.com/product-p/cr01.htm
Rear CCM Rotor: http://www.racingbrake.com/product-p/cr26.htm
Learn the recent review by Ron at Thunderhill with his ZR1 on RB sintered pads that is specifically made for handling CCM rotors on track at higher (than iron brake) temperature level.
Newly Improved RB Sintered Pads for CCM Rotors
http://www.racingbrake.com/RB-CCB-Sy...ccb-por-01.htm
Forget about refurbishing them (in cost or its reliability), and replace the worn out rotor with a brand new CCM rotor (by GM-Brembo) costing $1400 - $1800 that are actually cheaper to run than iron rotor when factor in the durability (3-5 times longer than iron)
Front CCM Rotor: http://www.racingbrake.com/product-p/cr01.htm
Rear CCM Rotor: http://www.racingbrake.com/product-p/cr26.htm
Learn the recent review by Ron at Thunderhill with his ZR1 on RB sintered pads that is specifically made for handling CCM rotors on track at higher (than iron brake) temperature level.
Newly Improved RB Sintered Pads for CCM Rotors
Yep guys I've been testing these including hammering on them at a private test day at Thunderhill on the 5 mile track where the tack was just open all day with no run groups. That day alone I put over 50 gallons of fuel through the car beating on them and I can say that the pads worked flawlessly! Warren touched on some of the key points of the new pad material but they are:
1. Intial Bite. This pad material offers significantly more initial bite than OEM especially when cold or on cold tires. With cold R7's it only requires moderate brake pressure to get ABS to kick in and once the tires come up to temp bite is perfect.
2. COF. I'll let Warren get into all of the numbers and what not because honestly testing and going back and forth comparing stuff I really do not want to know so that it is almost like a blind test. All that I can say is that it feels like there is quite a bit more not only initial bite as mentioned above but also overall maximum braking force available! It's like taking the OEM pads and adding about 20% more stopping power to them!
3. Consistency of Brake Torque. There is zero fade with these pads and pedal pressure and brake force seemingly stays consistent no matter how hard you push the brakes. I never really had issues with OEM but with these I did not even think about the brakes and also the pedal seemed to stay harder, while with OEM after hammering on them it felt like the pedal would get a little spongy at the end of the session.
4. Responsiveness to the brake pedal.
5. Modulation and brake control.
I really think that 4 & 5 go hand in hand so I'm lumping them together. The big issue that I have with OEM pads is the the braking feels almost "digital" meaning that it's either "on or off" and when it's "on" it full brakes, when it's off it's fully "off" and there are no brakes. There is no mid point, there is no ability to modulate well. Not with these lol! It's totally different, you can easily trail brake into corners and feel the difference in braking force even with the slightest adjustment of pedal pressure! It's truly night and day different! Also when approaching full brake, the harder you push the more brakes you get. Maximum pedal pressure required is higher than OEM but maximum braking force then achieved is also much higher than OEM.
6. Durability. No question about it, on my car I get about 35-40% less wear on these than OEM. A very considerable boost in pad life!
7. Wear pattern. Pad taper was also less than OEM. I know this is really dictated by caliper flex but I'm guessing that as the material wears less than OEM we are also seeing less tapered wear also.
Overall I can not say enough about how pleased I am with how these pads have ended up turning out to be. As I mentioned to Warren we spent over a year working on nothing but compound and material testing and while it has been a lot of work the ultimate product I think far exceeds any expectations that I had going into this!
To give you some feedback on lap times that we were pushing the brakes under at T-hil I was in the 3:03 range which is quite fast there. I also had my buddy test my car with these pads who took 3rd overall at last years Optima Street Car Challenge Finals in Vegas and took 1st at the First Optima Challenge Race this year, so yes he is smoking fast! He loved the brakes and mentioned how much better modulation was with the pads versus OEM. He clicked off a 2:59 and was on pace to turn a 2:57 on only his 3rd lap out with the car/brakes until he hit traffic, so that shows you how easy to use and comfort inspiring the pads are! A 2:59 is about the fastest that I know of any car going, a 2:57 might have been a new track record!
1. Intial Bite. This pad material offers significantly more initial bite than OEM especially when cold or on cold tires. With cold R7's it only requires moderate brake pressure to get ABS to kick in and once the tires come up to temp bite is perfect.
2. COF. I'll let Warren get into all of the numbers and what not because honestly testing and going back and forth comparing stuff I really do not want to know so that it is almost like a blind test. All that I can say is that it feels like there is quite a bit more not only initial bite as mentioned above but also overall maximum braking force available! It's like taking the OEM pads and adding about 20% more stopping power to them!
3. Consistency of Brake Torque. There is zero fade with these pads and pedal pressure and brake force seemingly stays consistent no matter how hard you push the brakes. I never really had issues with OEM but with these I did not even think about the brakes and also the pedal seemed to stay harder, while with OEM after hammering on them it felt like the pedal would get a little spongy at the end of the session.
4. Responsiveness to the brake pedal.
5. Modulation and brake control.
I really think that 4 & 5 go hand in hand so I'm lumping them together. The big issue that I have with OEM pads is the the braking feels almost "digital" meaning that it's either "on or off" and when it's "on" it full brakes, when it's off it's fully "off" and there are no brakes. There is no mid point, there is no ability to modulate well. Not with these lol! It's totally different, you can easily trail brake into corners and feel the difference in braking force even with the slightest adjustment of pedal pressure! It's truly night and day different! Also when approaching full brake, the harder you push the more brakes you get. Maximum pedal pressure required is higher than OEM but maximum braking force then achieved is also much higher than OEM.
6. Durability. No question about it, on my car I get about 35-40% less wear on these than OEM. A very considerable boost in pad life!
7. Wear pattern. Pad taper was also less than OEM. I know this is really dictated by caliper flex but I'm guessing that as the material wears less than OEM we are also seeing less tapered wear also.
Overall I can not say enough about how pleased I am with how these pads have ended up turning out to be. As I mentioned to Warren we spent over a year working on nothing but compound and material testing and while it has been a lot of work the ultimate product I think far exceeds any expectations that I had going into this!
To give you some feedback on lap times that we were pushing the brakes under at T-hil I was in the 3:03 range which is quite fast there. I also had my buddy test my car with these pads who took 3rd overall at last years Optima Street Car Challenge Finals in Vegas and took 1st at the First Optima Challenge Race this year, so yes he is smoking fast! He loved the brakes and mentioned how much better modulation was with the pads versus OEM. He clicked off a 2:59 and was on pace to turn a 2:57 on only his 3rd lap out with the car/brakes until he hit traffic, so that shows you how easy to use and comfort inspiring the pads are! A 2:59 is about the fastest that I know of any car going, a 2:57 might have been a new track record!
#411
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Install RB-CCM brake kit for low initial and replacement cost and race your Porsche like ZR1 and Viper ACR-E racers.
http://www.racingbrake.com/RB-CCB-Sy...ccb-por-01.htm
Forget about refurbishing them (in cost or its reliability), and replace the worn out rotor with a brand new CCM rotor (by GM-Brembo) costing $1400 - $1800 that are actually cheaper to run than iron rotor when factor in the durability (3-5 times longer than iron)
Front CCM Rotor: http://www.racingbrake.com/product-p/cr01.htm
Rear CCM Rotor: http://www.racingbrake.com/product-p/cr26.htm
http://www.racingbrake.com/RB-CCB-Sy...ccb-por-01.htm
Forget about refurbishing them (in cost or its reliability), and replace the worn out rotor with a brand new CCM rotor (by GM-Brembo) costing $1400 - $1800 that are actually cheaper to run than iron rotor when factor in the durability (3-5 times longer than iron)
Front CCM Rotor: http://www.racingbrake.com/product-p/cr01.htm
Rear CCM Rotor: http://www.racingbrake.com/product-p/cr26.htm
OK. You posted this to a 991 GT3, GT3RS and GTR forum.
I looked at your web site under Porsche and didn't find what your post indicated. Could you explain how your GM-Brembo CCM rotors apply to Porsche?
#412
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To put it in perspective with steel longevity, I replaced mine after 2 sets of pads (pagid rs29 used ~50%, and pfc11). Total km on track with them : ~5500km. They had some life remaining but since I was replacing front pads...
Some pics :
Attachment 1061815
Attachment 1061816
Some pics :
Attachment 1061815
Attachment 1061816
#413
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Interesting - the thickness is about 65% used up and probaby good for another set of pads, judging from the dimples (AFAIK, they are disappearing at 80% of thickness used up), but the heat-checking is deep to the point that I would not try to run another set of pads. The AP rotors show less than half of that wear after going through a set of PFC 11 pads to metal and about 20% of Ferodos.
I'm still on OEM rotors and PFC11, I will report more data when I finish those rotors!
And the rear is still holding pretty well!
There is around 200°C difference in peak temperatures between front/rear pads, that is probably why!
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#414
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Originally Posted by W8MM
OK. You posted this to a 991 GT3, GT3RS and GTR forum.
I looked at your web site under Porsche and didn't find what your post indicated. Could you explain how your GM-Brembo CCM rotors apply to Porsche?
I looked at your web site under Porsche and didn't find what your post indicated. Could you explain how your GM-Brembo CCM rotors apply to Porsche?
If you really want interest from the Porsche and Rennlist communities you should demonstrate the performance of your brakes and rotors in PORSCHES. Otherwise I think you are waisting your time. We all want as many options as possible, but it will be tough sell until demonstrated in the cars we love so much. Good luck.
#415
RL Community Team
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^
I'm going to suggest that Racing Brake provide a free set for David to test for them as a guinea pig.
If David gives the
then I think we're all good to go. At least I would be.
I'm going to suggest that Racing Brake provide a free set for David to test for them as a guinea pig.
If David gives the
![thumbup](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/thumbup.gif)
#416
Former Vendor
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![](https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlist.com-vbulletin/351x158/replacing_tab_8cdcf2d8b6d703020e53153d5c8dd8f3a176e1c9.jpg)
Here is the conversion procedure:
1. Purchase & install RB-CCB brake kit (direct bolt on).
2. Race your Porsche just like ZR1/Z28/GTR.
3. When rotor or pad are due for replacement, just purchase the replacement ZR1 rotors and pads from us or GM dealers or Amazon/eBay.
By doing so you can race as hard as you like and forget about:
1. To pccb or not pccb
2. Wear or weight loss of your CCB
3. Scary replacement cost from Porsche dealers ($6,000 per rotor)
4. Rotor refurbishing cost and its reliability.
Install this most affordable and reliable CCB brake system. Stop worrying and start enjoying...
#417
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#418
Former Vendor
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http://www.racingbrake.com/RB-CCB-Sy...ccb-por-01.htm
It's under the item details, click above link then scroll down you will see tabs below "Choose your options..." section:
It's under the item details, click above link then scroll down you will see tabs below "Choose your options..." section:
Description/Replacement Components/
Default tab is "Description" - in bold. Click "Replacement Components" tab to see replacement rotor and pad links.
#419
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RB, I presume the kit is calipers and rotors...? I do not want to replace my calipers, so to confirm: you provide ceramic replacement rotors that work with OEM calipers and center lock system? presume your pads are also needed? Thanks
#420
Rennlist Member
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Originally Posted by ipse dixit
^
I'm going to suggest that Racing Brake provide a free set for David to test for them as a guinea pig.
If David gives the
then I think we're all good to go. At least I would be.
I'm going to suggest that Racing Brake provide a free set for David to test for them as a guinea pig.
If David gives the
![thumbup](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/thumbup.gif)