Clocked

Radical suggestion, why don't you both get on the phone and have a conference call with the dealer. Kind a like a Mexican standoff to see who,is correct!!

Z356

Clocked: When I first joined Rennlist many years ago, there was member who was at that time a prolific poster at the gt3 forum who called himself 'PogueMoHone'. I finally met him in person and he was (is) quite a character. But unfortunately, he no longer posts here. But he had a very interesting motto that was feature as his signature in all of his posts. And thinking about your seemingly sensible suggestion to have a conference call with the dealer on why they keep calling their 'Modegrau' gt3 an imaginary 'Mexico Blue', it remind me of it vividly. And that motto went like this:

'Never argue with idiots - first they drag you down to their level, then they beat you with experience'

Some of you avid fans of PTS topics might recall that around June of 2014, McKenna received a PTS Carrera 4S in 'Signal Yellow'.



But the good folks at McKenna oddly refused to call it by its correct PTS name. Instead, they decided that what they had was called 'Signal Orange'.

https://rennlist.com/forums/991/8219...e-this-is.html

This bizarre behavior prompted me to do exactly what you suggested. I contacted first a salesman...then I took it up the chain of command all the way to the dealer principal!



But it was to no avail. Even when Matthew Henry confirmed it was PTS 'Signal Yellow', McKenna stuck to its guns and continued to call it 'Signal Orange'.

"Hi Eduardo,

I hope this email finds you well and my apologies for the delay in getting
you this list!

Per your request, please see attached for the most up to date PTS list that
we have from Germany. As far as Signal Orange goes, that color is not
currently on our pre-approved list. Should you have any other questions
please do not hesitate to ask.

Best Regards,

Matthew Henry
Personal Design Specialist
Porsche Cars North America, Inc.
980 Hammond Drive, Suite 1000
Atlanta, GA 30328"

https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3/...-colors-8.html

So I learned a valuable lesson re: trying to talk sense with an obstinate Porsche dealer. And since Colm is no longer using his famous motto here on Rennlist anymore, I have appropriated it as my own. Yes, let me repeat it one more time...because it applies so well to Rusnak Pasadena in this instance:

'Never argue with idiots - first they drag you down to their level, then they beat you with experience'



Is it not so sad that we are able to conjure up this juvenile dealer tactic as normal & common behavior being practiced today by an otherwise prestigious Porsche dealer in the automobile culture capital of our nation! What does that say about them, us and PCNA (that allows it to happen)?


Thank you for the kind words. I do hope this thread once again exposes to the enthusiast community here at Rennlist, as well as to those who monitor these sites from PCNA, the unscrupulous behavior often practiced by Porsche dealers in a North American market that we perceived as 'sophisticated' and dominated supposedly by discriminating smart buyers!



Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel

.

TRAKCAR

I miss Colm..

mile2424

late to the party, but Congrats Eduardo on the signal green find! Can't wait to see it this summer!

john weires

Eduardo,

If you wish to update your list of where incoming PTS 2015GT3 cars are going, I just got a tip from Matthew Henry of Porsche America to call Rancho Mirage Porsche (California).

They have a signal green for sale coming in the end of May for $20,000 over msrp. I had to pass because of this ridiculous up charge preferring to remain happy with my GR 2014 GT3. The salesman read me some of the options off the build sheet. No PCCB, standard brakes and standard interior, 4 way seats with leather backs, front axle lift, LED headlights, sports chrono/app and XM were the major points. Perhaps the build is similar to yours? MSRP was $153,950 plus their $20,000 up charge.

Mr. Henry also told me that Porsche of Bellvue, WA was getting one.
I see you already show Bellvue on your list as sold. So I don't know if this
is a 2nd signal green car or the one already accounted for. I have emailed them to see if it is available and at what price, but have not heard back yet.

John Weires

Z356

Thank you John. Yes, I am aware of that 'Signal Green' gt3 coming to Rancho Mirage. It's the #7 on my list.

7) At a CA Dealer. But not yet a liberty to reveal since the Rennlister that informed me is trying to negotiate its purchase.

One of our Rennlisters was trying to finalize its purchase and he brought it to my attention. So I couldn't disclose it on the forum except in cryptic form. Interestingly enough, P of Rancho Mirage was one of the dealers I contacted on March 7th when I first started looking for one of the ten 'Signal Green' gt3s after discovering of their existence at the lobby of the LAX Hilton on March 6th. It happens that the GM is well known to a close friend of mine and the latter had previously introduced me to this gentleman at the IndiGO Auto Group, which is the organization (mini empire?) Todd Blue has created which also includes P of North Houston. At that time, P of Rancho Mirage had not heard of these late allocations PTS gt3s. But after learning about the PTS cars from me, they scrambled and apparently were able to get one* - supposedly to allocate to me, although it was not needed since I had already finalized my deal with P of Beachwood. This is the gt3 that is now available for sale.

*From where - I have no idea! Maybe from another dealer that didn't know what they had.

*******

And yes, we have identified already the 'Signal Green' gt3 coming to Porsche of Bellevue (WA). That has been on my list for a while.

Please kindly inform my good friend Mr. Matthew Henry of 'Porsche Exclusive' that if he really wants to be helpful he could start by telling any of us where all the 'Modegrau / Fashion Grey' PTS gt3s are located in the US dealer network!



**********************

If any of you have located any other one of these supposedly 30 PTS gt3s that are part of these late allocations, please post or pm/email me. Thanks. We are pretty certain that at least a few 'Modegrau' gt3s are not yet accounted for...


HERE IS OUR UPDATED LIST AS OF MARCH 30th

'Signal Green'
Confirmed
1) McKenna - CA (Status Unknown. Was initially available at $20K over MSRP...but it might be higher now!)
2) Beverly Hills - CA (Sold at markup over MSRP)
3) Stevinson - CO (Sold)
4) P of Beachwood- OH (Sold at MSRP to Rennlister)
5) P of Bellevue - WA (Sold)
6) P of San Diego - CA (Sold as MSRP to Rennlister)
7) P of Rancho Mirage - CA (Asking $20K over MSRP)
8) Porsche of Syracuse (Cicero, NY). Under Contract (apparently).

Reported but not yet confirmed
9) Ellis - GA (Several folks that have called Ellis report the latter doesn't think it has been allocated one).
10) Porsche of the Main Line - PA (Has anyone called them?)

11) Assigned to a North Carolina customer that is part owner of a Porsche sales & restoration shop. (Sold at MSRP). I personally think this is an extra PTS 'Signal Green' gt3 in addition to the 10 originally allocated to US dealers in the reward program. Need that confirm since it's only speculation on my part.


************************************

'Arena Red Metallic'
Confirmed
1) Porsche of Tacoma -WA Available. (Asking $10K over MSRP)
2) Porsche of Omaha -NE - (Under Contract to Rennlister)
3) Porsche of Conshohoken - PA - (Under Contract at MSRP to Rennlister).
4) Porsche Exchange - IL (Available as of two days ago. Were asking MSRP)
5) Porsche of Beverly Hills - CA (Available as of a few days ago).
6) Sewickley Porsche - PA (Under contract to local customer)
7) Manhattan Motor Car Company (NYC) - Apparently Available!
8) Porsche of North Scottsdale (AZ) - Apparently Available!
9) New Country - P of Greenwich (CT) - Apparently Available!
10) ?


******************************

'Fashion Grey / Modegrau'
Confirmed
1) Champion Florida. (Available. Asking $178,000 or $20K over MSRP)
2) Rusnak Pasadena (Available. Asking $198,000 or $40K over MSRP). Rusnak originally claimed it was 'Mexico Blue' and not 'Modegrau'. We didn't believed them and had evidence that showed it was 'Fashion Grey/Modegrau'.
3) New Country - Porsche of Greenwich. Supposedly will be sold to Jerry Seinfeld.
4) Gaudin Porsche of Las Vegas - (Under contract to Rennlist user)
5) ?
6) ?
7) ?
8) ?
8) ?
10) ?

11) Assigned to customer known as 'Anonymous918' & who has two 918's on order! He is the only PTS gt3 in this group whose specs were totally modified from original. He is getting LWB, PCCB, etc. Along with the North Carolina buyer, I believe this PTS 'Modegrau' is an extra build and does not count against the original 10 'Modegrau' that PAG/PCNA originally thought to allocated to the US dealers on the reward program. But I don't have confirmation of that at the present time and is only speculation.

Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel

GreenLantern

Thank you for this update, John!

This ^^.

For all I know, I may pick one up on a whim if the experience isn't too painful*.

(* Not holding my breath for that one.)

ScottKelly911

John, did Matthew Henry tell you that it was priced 20k over MSRP or did you find that out upon inquiring directly from the dealer?

john weires

Matthew Henry did not mention any pricing.
I got the $20,000 over msrp price directly from a salesperson named Roger.
At least he was helpful with telling me the options on the car even after I told him that I would not pay a market adjustment price.

shapiroeric

I have a call into them....the SA did not know and he will check with the GM....I'll update....

RCorsa

It seams as If PNA should care about its brand enough to prevent dealers from doing shady stuff. I know brands like Ferrari and Lamborghini do this big time and although dealers try to get around the rules, there can be long time losses for dealerships via loss of allocations.

I read in one post that PNA or maybe it was dealers don't care about Rennlisters. Maybe get a group letter expressing your feelings and have every owner who wants to be involved sign the letter and put down all the current and past Porsches owned (maybe even the VIN for proof). If I was the NA CEO I would take something like this VERY seriously. Porsche dealership are amongst the most profitable in the industry (great margins, expensive cars, expensive service and lots of vehicles sold) so something formal that PNA gets from owners that makes it down to dealers is likely to be taken seriously....

If no one cares to do that then really there is no use complaining about dealers behavior and you might as well bet used to being F&!@ by unscrupulous dealers.....

Z356

I care RCorsa. And let me first start by saying that in general I am very sympathetic to honest Porsche dealers that are trying in earnest to make their businesses work and earn a fair return on their investment. PCNA has been known to be particularly capricious in the manner they have dealt with their US dealers, making many of them invest incredible amount of money in showroom architectural designs that are often extravagantly expensive and hard to recoup on the up-front monetary investment. Since margins on new Porsche vehicles is rather limited (around 10% of base and 15% of options), dealers have been forced to play hardball in trade-ins and used car acquisitions. Usually, warranty work on new cars and sales in their used car department keeps them in business.

But I draw the line at markups over MSRP for these late allocation PTS gt3s. After all, PAG created an artificial shortage of PTS vehicles, and gt3s in particular, by declaring a moratorium on all PTS for the balance of MY2015s. Now that they miraculously were able to build these 30 PTS gt3s and give them to select US dealers as rewards, the least PCNA could have done was to insure that dealers did not gouge their customers on these particular cars. And like you say, they have ways to accomplish that...if there is a will to do right by their ultimate customers - you & me. These markups might look like money makers for these greedy dealers...but in reality they undo years of accumulated good will that a particular dealer has build up slowly among their customer base.

I know the dealer business model in America. It's not perfect. And I also understand the plight of many dealers and the often unfair way PCNA treats them. Their big payoff usually comes when they sell a dealership...and not while they operate the business from one year to the next. It's a complicated business...and I see it from both sides.

But I can't condone the practice of mark-ups on an artificially created shortage of product by Porsche. It's precisely the appearance of collusion between the manufacturer and some (not all) of the dealers trying to sell these PTS gt3s at $20K or $40K over MSRP that leave a bad taste in my mouth. That is not good business practice and Porsche will pay a price for taking advantage of a situation they themselves artificially created! Just ask Montoya, djcxxx, Mr. Sullivan, Sportscentury, DesmoRR, Mooty, Calpolo17, Nine1won, NateOZ, Jon70 and many others Rennlisters that were unable to custom order PTS on their MY2015 991 gt3s! To see these $20K-$40K markups on PTS gt3s when they were denied PTS in their allocations just a few months before is an insult to Porsche's loyal customer base. I rest my case.

Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
.

GreenLantern

+1

Feel free to throw me in with that lot. I passed on an opportunity to consume a late late MY2015 allocation, and poked a friend instead (who ended up ordering in White), because I couldn't do PTS.

RCorsa

I can totally tell that you do care about this issue. Your posts are very informative and well thought out. The point of my post is that I think it would be good for PNA to know that it's loyal customer base is not happy about this type of behavior from the dealers that represent them.

You are correct about the costs of a dealership but trust me they are Very profitable. I know several car dealership owners one of whom has several brands (including Porsche)and they have expressed to me the profits they take home. I can promise you it is incredible and allows them to afford a lifestyle equalled to hollywood celebrities and professional athletes.

Anyway, after the whole gt3 engine debacle I think it would be good to let PNA that it's loyal customers are not happy with such behavior.

Blkdsr12

I was told the Arena Red at New Country Porsche in Greenwich was still available (as of yesterday afternoon) and I believe it's at msrp.