Consolidated 991RS thread
01-13-2015, 09:44 AM
#3228
01-13-2015, 09:57 AM
#3229
Racer
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01-13-2015, 10:20 AM
#3230
Race Director
01-13-2015, 10:39 AM
#3231
Race Director
no need to wait, I just spoke to my "Porsche Guy" who knows somebody at the cleaning company that cleans Porsche HQ and they sent him this pic (taken with an Iphone 7 I'm told):
01-13-2015, 10:47 AM
#3232
01-13-2015, 03:07 PM
#3233
FYI, this will help your resale values if true:
A thought experiment along the same lines that could likewise make GT3 owners' bank accounts very happy:
Some have mentioned the possibility that the GT3 RS could be going hybrid, and while I zero reason to believe this, there are some facts that support this theory. So for fun while we wait, in an alternate universe what would this look like?
Let's assume the brief is to put the GT-R in it's place. Currently it turns 7:08 at the 'Ring, one can assume it will get a little faster over time, so the goal is a target time of <7:00.
25 seconds is a lot to drop from the GT3, so some out of the box thinking is required. However you do have a very nice parts bin to work with, and some great experience with both the 918, 919 hybrid and the GT3 R Hybrid race car.
Step one: steal the 918's front hybrid motor and power electronics, 129 hp and compact, and adapt it to the front axle of the GT3. Uprights and some chassis will need to change, but that's not a huge deal.
Porsche doesn't care about electric only range for a 'ring record, so they can power it with a very small battery pack like the 919 hybrid. Thus instead of adding 692 lbs and 285 hp as in the 918, we can assume a more modest 129 hp a bit over 200 lbs added with 4wd. Actual numbers could be less, as the La Ferrari battery weighs .8 lbs per hp supported and electric motors can run 3 hp per lb, but the 4wd stuff adds weight.
Some of this extra weight comes back out- the engine could be redesigned to drop ancillaries like the 918, saving more than 50 lbs, but necessitating a new engine to take full advantage (as per rumor). If we give it 520 hp from 4.0L we'd be looking at a combined 650 hp pushing a car that's ~150 lbs heavier than the GT3, call it 3300 lbs.
The extra weight combined with downforce would require higher load rated tires, particularly in the front where most of the weight is added. We've seen the GT3 RS front tires have a 26% higher load rating, and are significantly wider to let it put power down. Unfortunately the complex electronics and power distribution would necessitate a PDK transmission only.
The overall power and configuration would be identical to the GT3-R Hybrid, which was able to run at the front of the field at the 'ring. The 5:1 power to weight ratio and 4WD configuration would approach that of the 918 hybrid, which has proven sub 7 minute ability. The power deficit would be countered by a better tire to weight ratio and higher downforce, allowing for a nearly identical lap time, beating the GT-R and achieving the goals.
By delaying the sale a year the car wouldn't undercut slow 918 sales and can be fully uncorked. We know Porsche prides itself on performance per emissions, and this car would score very well there. It would also pave the way for future 911 hybrid acceptance, and with 650 hp already on tap, a GT2 would seem a bit superfluous, hence that car's cancellation...
Do I believe all of the above for this generation of GT3 RS? No. But I thought it would be interesting to throw out there. Sooner or later it sounds awfully plausible...
Originally Posted by Twitter @Andrew_Frankel
So, by the end of this year and GT3s aside, all Porsche 911s will be turbocharged. I can't quite believe I just wrote that. #EndofAnEra
Some have mentioned the possibility that the GT3 RS could be going hybrid, and while I zero reason to believe this, there are some facts that support this theory. So for fun while we wait, in an alternate universe what would this look like?
Let's assume the brief is to put the GT-R in it's place. Currently it turns 7:08 at the 'Ring, one can assume it will get a little faster over time, so the goal is a target time of <7:00.
25 seconds is a lot to drop from the GT3, so some out of the box thinking is required. However you do have a very nice parts bin to work with, and some great experience with both the 918, 919 hybrid and the GT3 R Hybrid race car.
Step one: steal the 918's front hybrid motor and power electronics, 129 hp and compact, and adapt it to the front axle of the GT3. Uprights and some chassis will need to change, but that's not a huge deal.
Porsche doesn't care about electric only range for a 'ring record, so they can power it with a very small battery pack like the 919 hybrid. Thus instead of adding 692 lbs and 285 hp as in the 918, we can assume a more modest 129 hp a bit over 200 lbs added with 4wd. Actual numbers could be less, as the La Ferrari battery weighs .8 lbs per hp supported and electric motors can run 3 hp per lb, but the 4wd stuff adds weight.
Some of this extra weight comes back out- the engine could be redesigned to drop ancillaries like the 918, saving more than 50 lbs, but necessitating a new engine to take full advantage (as per rumor). If we give it 520 hp from 4.0L we'd be looking at a combined 650 hp pushing a car that's ~150 lbs heavier than the GT3, call it 3300 lbs.
The extra weight combined with downforce would require higher load rated tires, particularly in the front where most of the weight is added. We've seen the GT3 RS front tires have a 26% higher load rating, and are significantly wider to let it put power down. Unfortunately the complex electronics and power distribution would necessitate a PDK transmission only.
The overall power and configuration would be identical to the GT3-R Hybrid, which was able to run at the front of the field at the 'ring. The 5:1 power to weight ratio and 4WD configuration would approach that of the 918 hybrid, which has proven sub 7 minute ability. The power deficit would be countered by a better tire to weight ratio and higher downforce, allowing for a nearly identical lap time, beating the GT-R and achieving the goals.
By delaying the sale a year the car wouldn't undercut slow 918 sales and can be fully uncorked. We know Porsche prides itself on performance per emissions, and this car would score very well there. It would also pave the way for future 911 hybrid acceptance, and with 650 hp already on tap, a GT2 would seem a bit superfluous, hence that car's cancellation...
Do I believe all of the above for this generation of GT3 RS? No. But I thought it would be interesting to throw out there. Sooner or later it sounds awfully plausible...
01-13-2015, 03:17 PM
#3234
I thought for a while that the GT3 is either done or they make a GT3 Hybrid for the next generation.
But I hope they don't make the switch to AWD is that the case, hopefully Porsche can figure out how to do a RWD hybrid like Mclaren and Ferrari.
The specs for the GT3 R Hybrid 2.0 were impressive:
Engine: 4.0L Flat-6, 75 kW x2
Power: 672 HP (total)
Transmission: 6-Speed Sequential
0-60 Time: 2.5 Seconds (est.)
Top Speed: 175 mph (est.)
Drivetrain: All-Wheel Drive
Curb Weight: 2,866 Pounds
Seating: 1
But I hope they don't make the switch to AWD is that the case, hopefully Porsche can figure out how to do a RWD hybrid like Mclaren and Ferrari.
The specs for the GT3 R Hybrid 2.0 were impressive:
Engine: 4.0L Flat-6, 75 kW x2
Power: 672 HP (total)
Transmission: 6-Speed Sequential
0-60 Time: 2.5 Seconds (est.)
Top Speed: 175 mph (est.)
Drivetrain: All-Wheel Drive
Curb Weight: 2,866 Pounds
Seating: 1
01-13-2015, 03:36 PM
#3235
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FYI, this will help your resale values if true:
A thought experiment along the same lines that could likewise make GT3 owners' bank accounts very happy:
Some have mentioned the possibility that the GT3 RS could be going hybrid, and while I zero reason to believe this, there are some facts that support this theory. So for fun while we wait, in an alternate universe what would this look like?
Let's assume the brief is to put the GT-R in it's place. Currently it turns 7:08 at the 'Ring, one can assume it will get a little faster over time, so the goal is a target time of <7:00.
25 seconds is a lot to drop from the GT3, so some out of the box thinking is required. However you do have a very nice parts bin to work with, and some great experience with both the 918, 919 hybrid and the GT3 R Hybrid race car.
Step one: steal the 918's front hybrid motor and power electronics, 129 hp and compact, and adapt it to the front axle of the GT3. Uprights and some chassis will need to change, but that's not a huge deal.
Porsche doesn't care about electric only range for a 'ring record, so they can power it with a very small battery pack like the 919 hybrid. Thus instead of adding 692 lbs and 285 hp as in the 918, we can assume a more modest 129 hp a bit over 200 lbs added with 4wd. Actual numbers could be less, as the La Ferrari battery weighs .8 lbs per hp supported and electric motors can run 3 hp per lb, but the 4wd stuff adds weight.
Some of this extra weight comes back out- the engine could be redesigned to drop ancillaries like the 918, saving more than 50 lbs, but necessitating a new engine to take full advantage (as per rumor). If we give it 520 hp from 4.0L we'd be looking at a combined 650 hp pushing a car that's ~150 lbs heavier than the GT3, call it 3300 lbs.
The extra weight combined with downforce would require higher load rated tires, particularly in the front where most of the weight is added. We've seen the GT3 RS front tires have a 26% higher load rating, and are significantly wider to let it put power down. Unfortunately the complex electronics and power distribution would necessitate a PDK transmission only.
The overall power and configuration would be identical to the GT3-R Hybrid, which was able to run at the front of the field at the 'ring. The 5:1 power to weight ratio and 4WD configuration would approach that of the 918 hybrid, which has proven sub 7 minute ability. The power deficit would be countered by a better tire to weight ratio and higher downforce, allowing for a nearly identical lap time, beating the GT-R and achieving the goals.
By delaying the sale a year the car wouldn't undercut slow 918 sales and can be fully uncorked. We know Porsche prides itself on performance per emissions, and this car would score very well there. It would also pave the way for future 911 hybrid acceptance, and with 650 hp already on tap, a GT2 would seem a bit superfluous, hence that car's cancellation...
Do I believe all of the above for this generation of GT3 RS? No. But I thought it would be interesting to throw out there. Sooner or later it sounds awfully plausible...
A thought experiment along the same lines that could likewise make GT3 owners' bank accounts very happy:
Some have mentioned the possibility that the GT3 RS could be going hybrid, and while I zero reason to believe this, there are some facts that support this theory. So for fun while we wait, in an alternate universe what would this look like?
Let's assume the brief is to put the GT-R in it's place. Currently it turns 7:08 at the 'Ring, one can assume it will get a little faster over time, so the goal is a target time of <7:00.
25 seconds is a lot to drop from the GT3, so some out of the box thinking is required. However you do have a very nice parts bin to work with, and some great experience with both the 918, 919 hybrid and the GT3 R Hybrid race car.
Step one: steal the 918's front hybrid motor and power electronics, 129 hp and compact, and adapt it to the front axle of the GT3. Uprights and some chassis will need to change, but that's not a huge deal.
Porsche doesn't care about electric only range for a 'ring record, so they can power it with a very small battery pack like the 919 hybrid. Thus instead of adding 692 lbs and 285 hp as in the 918, we can assume a more modest 129 hp a bit over 200 lbs added with 4wd. Actual numbers could be less, as the La Ferrari battery weighs .8 lbs per hp supported and electric motors can run 3 hp per lb, but the 4wd stuff adds weight.
Some of this extra weight comes back out- the engine could be redesigned to drop ancillaries like the 918, saving more than 50 lbs, but necessitating a new engine to take full advantage (as per rumor). If we give it 520 hp from 4.0L we'd be looking at a combined 650 hp pushing a car that's ~150 lbs heavier than the GT3, call it 3300 lbs.
The extra weight combined with downforce would require higher load rated tires, particularly in the front where most of the weight is added. We've seen the GT3 RS front tires have a 26% higher load rating, and are significantly wider to let it put power down. Unfortunately the complex electronics and power distribution would necessitate a PDK transmission only.
The overall power and configuration would be identical to the GT3-R Hybrid, which was able to run at the front of the field at the 'ring. The 5:1 power to weight ratio and 4WD configuration would approach that of the 918 hybrid, which has proven sub 7 minute ability. The power deficit would be countered by a better tire to weight ratio and higher downforce, allowing for a nearly identical lap time, beating the GT-R and achieving the goals.
By delaying the sale a year the car wouldn't undercut slow 918 sales and can be fully uncorked. We know Porsche prides itself on performance per emissions, and this car would score very well there. It would also pave the way for future 911 hybrid acceptance, and with 650 hp already on tap, a GT2 would seem a bit superfluous, hence that car's cancellation...
Do I believe all of the above for this generation of GT3 RS? No. But I thought it would be interesting to throw out there. Sooner or later it sounds awfully plausible...
This will be my last RS if things go as outlined above. Too many great N/A cars still to be owned and driven: Speciale, Singer, BAC Mono.
Would be great to see Porsche keep one 911 true to its roots along the lines of Johannes Van Overbeek's proposal in recent Excellence mag: modern interation of the Carrera R, 2,500lbs, 300-350hp, short wheelbase, minimal tech. Alas............
01-13-2015, 03:51 PM
#3236
Rennlist Member
perhaps off color, but with cars other than HP, less is alway more like womens pubic hair shaving. I dont want to see overweight cars
01-13-2015, 04:05 PM
#3237
Still plays with cars.
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Publicity embargo probably related to cars shown at NAIAS (Targa GTS).
Different motor - sure, 4.0 and a full dry sump. The RS is the homologation car for the race cars so AWD and 4 wheel steering is very unlikely as they are not allowed in their racing class.
Different motor - sure, 4.0 and a full dry sump. The RS is the homologation car for the race cars so AWD and 4 wheel steering is very unlikely as they are not allowed in their racing class.
01-13-2015, 04:28 PM
#3238
FYI, this will help your resale values if true:
A thought experiment along the same lines that could likewise make GT3 owners' bank accounts very happy:
Some have mentioned the possibility that the GT3 RS could be going hybrid, and while I zero reason to believe this, there are some facts that support this theory. So for fun while we wait, in an alternate universe what would this look like?
Let's assume the brief is to put the GT-R in it's place. Currently it turns 7:08 at the 'Ring, one can assume it will get a little faster over time, so the goal is a target time of <7:00.
25 seconds is a lot to drop from the GT3, so some out of the box thinking is required. However you do have a very nice parts bin to work with, and some great experience with both the 918, 919 hybrid and the GT3 R Hybrid race car.
Step one: steal the 918's front hybrid motor and power electronics, 129 hp and compact, and adapt it to the front axle of the GT3. Uprights and some chassis will need to change, but that's not a huge deal.
Porsche doesn't care about electric only range for a 'ring record, so they can power it with a very small battery pack like the 919 hybrid. Thus instead of adding 692 lbs and 285 hp as in the 918, we can assume a more modest 129 hp a bit over 200 lbs added with 4wd. Actual numbers could be less, as the La Ferrari battery weighs .8 lbs per hp supported and electric motors can run 3 hp per lb, but the 4wd stuff adds weight.
Some of this extra weight comes back out- the engine could be redesigned to drop ancillaries like the 918, saving more than 50 lbs, but necessitating a new engine to take full advantage (as per rumor). If we give it 520 hp from 4.0L we'd be looking at a combined 650 hp pushing a car that's ~150 lbs heavier than the GT3, call it 3300 lbs.
The extra weight combined with downforce would require higher load rated tires, particularly in the front where most of the weight is added. We've seen the GT3 RS front tires have a 26% higher load rating, and are significantly wider to let it put power down. Unfortunately the complex electronics and power distribution would necessitate a PDK transmission only.
The overall power and configuration would be identical to the GT3-R Hybrid, which was able to run at the front of the field at the 'ring. The 5:1 power to weight ratio and 4WD configuration would approach that of the 918 hybrid, which has proven sub 7 minute ability. The power deficit would be countered by a better tire to weight ratio and higher downforce, allowing for a nearly identical lap time, beating the GT-R and achieving the goals.
By delaying the sale a year the car wouldn't undercut slow 918 sales and can be fully uncorked. We know Porsche prides itself on performance per emissions, and this car would score very well there. It would also pave the way for future 911 hybrid acceptance, and with 650 hp already on tap, a GT2 would seem a bit superfluous, hence that car's cancellation...
Do I believe all of the above for this generation of GT3 RS? No. But I thought it would be interesting to throw out there. Sooner or later it sounds awfully plausible...
A thought experiment along the same lines that could likewise make GT3 owners' bank accounts very happy:
Some have mentioned the possibility that the GT3 RS could be going hybrid, and while I zero reason to believe this, there are some facts that support this theory. So for fun while we wait, in an alternate universe what would this look like?
Let's assume the brief is to put the GT-R in it's place. Currently it turns 7:08 at the 'Ring, one can assume it will get a little faster over time, so the goal is a target time of <7:00.
25 seconds is a lot to drop from the GT3, so some out of the box thinking is required. However you do have a very nice parts bin to work with, and some great experience with both the 918, 919 hybrid and the GT3 R Hybrid race car.
Step one: steal the 918's front hybrid motor and power electronics, 129 hp and compact, and adapt it to the front axle of the GT3. Uprights and some chassis will need to change, but that's not a huge deal.
Porsche doesn't care about electric only range for a 'ring record, so they can power it with a very small battery pack like the 919 hybrid. Thus instead of adding 692 lbs and 285 hp as in the 918, we can assume a more modest 129 hp a bit over 200 lbs added with 4wd. Actual numbers could be less, as the La Ferrari battery weighs .8 lbs per hp supported and electric motors can run 3 hp per lb, but the 4wd stuff adds weight.
Some of this extra weight comes back out- the engine could be redesigned to drop ancillaries like the 918, saving more than 50 lbs, but necessitating a new engine to take full advantage (as per rumor). If we give it 520 hp from 4.0L we'd be looking at a combined 650 hp pushing a car that's ~150 lbs heavier than the GT3, call it 3300 lbs.
The extra weight combined with downforce would require higher load rated tires, particularly in the front where most of the weight is added. We've seen the GT3 RS front tires have a 26% higher load rating, and are significantly wider to let it put power down. Unfortunately the complex electronics and power distribution would necessitate a PDK transmission only.
The overall power and configuration would be identical to the GT3-R Hybrid, which was able to run at the front of the field at the 'ring. The 5:1 power to weight ratio and 4WD configuration would approach that of the 918 hybrid, which has proven sub 7 minute ability. The power deficit would be countered by a better tire to weight ratio and higher downforce, allowing for a nearly identical lap time, beating the GT-R and achieving the goals.
By delaying the sale a year the car wouldn't undercut slow 918 sales and can be fully uncorked. We know Porsche prides itself on performance per emissions, and this car would score very well there. It would also pave the way for future 911 hybrid acceptance, and with 650 hp already on tap, a GT2 would seem a bit superfluous, hence that car's cancellation...
Do I believe all of the above for this generation of GT3 RS? No. But I thought it would be interesting to throw out there. Sooner or later it sounds awfully plausible...
Kevin.
01-13-2015, 05:07 PM
#3239
If you look at Porsche's history you've consistently seen race cars and supercars lead the way for the mainstream 911. The 4WD 911 SC-RS/ 953 and 959 arrived five and two years before the 4WD Carrera 4, respectively. The GT3-R Hybrid debuted 5 years ago and 918 production began in late 2013. Thus 2015 for a 911 variant of that architecture would be right on schedule...
The GT3 race cars were homologated off of the C4S platform for a while, despite not using 4WD, so I don't think homologation prevents the use of RWS or 4WD in the road cars.
Despite which I don't think hybrid is happening yet. But I suspect it will... soon.
Last edited by Petevb; 01-13-2015 at 07:38 PM.
01-13-2015, 07:20 PM
#3240
Rennlist Member
991 RS won't be tubo charged (thermic or electric), neither hybrid.
it's exceptionnal velocity comes from an NA 4.0 DFI engine and a very specific PDK gearbox (continuously variable automatic functinality).
it's simple.
it's exceptionnal velocity comes from an NA 4.0 DFI engine and a very specific PDK gearbox (continuously variable automatic functinality).
it's simple.