Mike in CA

I've read that the production run is limited to 5000 a year. I also think they were able to use an off the shelf manual gearbox for the car....

Nizer

2012 VAG total unit sales were a litte over 9m, with VW brand passenger cars representing 5.74m.

Alan Smithee

Reality is that it is an issue - clearly GM does not have a DCT in their parts bins. Buying one that can handle the torque (it would need to work with the supercharged models, both in-house and aftermarket) and adapting it would not have been a small undertaking. Only making it work for the base models would have been very poor product planning, and development of the super-Vettes had probably not begun.

At what point during their bankruptcy should they have done that?

To me, the fact that there is a brand new Corvette of any type in the wake of GM's bankruptcy, let alone one that appears very competitive, makes Porsche's decision to not invest a small amount of its immense profits in a manual GT3 even more egregious.

neanicu

Couldn't have said it better myself!

Mike in CA

Porsche didn't have a suitable (no one believes the PDK derived 7 speed MT is suitable) manual transmission in their parts bin for the 991 GT3's new motor either, so your points make the case for their decision. The fact that it wouldn't have been a small undertaking is what I've been saying all along.

I'm not saying GM should have done it; it clearly wasn't in their economic interest to do so and therefore they didn't. I was simply drawing a parallel between GM's decision and Porsche's. Profit motive and financial survival is the bottom line for every company, GM and Porsche included.

If you recall, a couple of years ago when product planning was no doubt going on for a new GT3, Porsche was in the midst of a little economic situation of their own, while simultaneously planning for several new models, a return to LeMans, and major expansions of production facilities. It's easy to say they should have invested their "immense profits" in a MT for the GT3, but I also think it's naïve to believe that Porsche didn't consider all options. We may think we know their business better than they do, but it's much more likely that we don't. Regardless of whether some of us are outraged by their choices, the free market will decide whether they made the right ones. I wouldn't bet against them.

Manifold

Mike, do you think Porsche could ever make a decision which doesn't prove to be a good one? Are they infallible in your mind? I see you defending them on every issue, all the time. Hope you can appreciate that this raises questions about your objectivity. If you're not recieving renumeration from Porsche, you should be.

tmg57

Remuneration not renumeration. Common mistake that took me most of my life to get right. Totally counterintuitive to me.

Mike in CA

Manifold, are you asking the same questions of the posters here who consistently express negative opinions about Porsche? Does that reflect on your objectivity?

Obviously Porsche has made bad decisions in the past, and maybe in other areas today, but the topic of this forum, and the context for all of my remarks, is the 991 GT3. I could make up bull**** reasons why I think they made really bad choices for this car to prove my "objectivity" but the fact is that I don't think they did, and that is being born out by review after review and by consumer demand. Now if you want to talk about the mistakes Porsche made with other models, or trying to take over VW and losing control of their company, we can have that conversation, but so far it hasn't come up in this venue. If you've got a response to my arguments, then have at it, but questioning my motives is kind of a low blow.

If you think Porsche isn't making the right decisions, put your money where your mouth is and short the stock. As for remuneration, if you know someone to talk to about that please do so as the checks haven't been coming through and I have PCCB's to buy....

Alan Smithee

Of course they considered all options. Clearly Porsche will sell every GT3 it makes, regardless of transmission, so there is no question that developing two transmissions would have reduced profit for the GT3 product line. And as you pointed out earlier, PDK blends better with current and future technology. So in a one-transmission scenario, it won.

But the argument to the Porsche faithful during development of the VW/Audi-based trucks - first the Cayenne, and now Macan - is that these non-Porsche vehicles (I am aware you have a Cayenne - spare me that it is a real Porsche) would allow Porsche to continue building the sports cars we loved for the first 50 years of the company's existence.

I would absolutely bet against them. As I have pointed out elsewhere, VW as a whole is following GM's pre-bankruptcy game plan of piling too much similar product into ultimate competition with itself, blurring the lines between brands solely for short term profit.

Mike in CA

If you owned Porsche I wonder if you would have been satisfied remaining a niche company? What if you were still making air cooled cars for the "faithful" with no sedans or SUV's in the mix? I wonder if you would be making massive profits, or in fact still be in business?

Now supposedly the tipping point for the faithful is with MT's, an entertaining and engaging, but arguably disappearing technology. That's not my wish, BTW, it just seems inevitable. Anyway, as I said earlier, if you really want to bet against them, short the stock. It may be a terrific "get rich" opportunity.

As for my Cayenne, it says Porsche on the back and I really enjoy driving it. I'll let you, as one of the faithful, decide if it's a "real Porsche" or not. Doesn't hurt my feelings one way or the other.

Manifold

No, I haven't seen anyone being as critical of the car as you're supportive of it. Those who are critical of car are typically critical of certain aspects but still appreciative of others. But it goes beyond the car, you also continually defend Porsche's motives (as if you know them for sure), and some of your arguments, such as your financial arguments, miss the point of the criticisms (eg, the value of preserving things like driver involvement for the sake of the long term), either deliberately or because you're biased for some reason (eg, wanting to avoid doubts about a car you've ordered and are paying ~$150K for?). And yes, that's a reasonably objective assessment, since it comes from someone who's able to both lavishly praise the car while also criticizing some aspects of it.

Oh, and what Alan said too.

Manifold

I have a Cayenne too (GTS), and I don't think of it as a 'real Porsche'. I think of it as an SUV which happens to be made by Porsche, so it's better because it. 'Real Porsches' are trackworthy sports cars which benefit from technology transfer from racing.

Mike in CA

Then you just haven't been paying attention.

While I appreciate your attempt at amateur psychology, this conversation is at it's useful end. Don't expect that I will be running my posts by you for approval of their negative/positive content. I'm fairly certain you haven't been appointed to keep score.

We don't disagree on something....

-eztrader-

Seems a week doesn't go by without a few of us accusing Mike of being on the Porsche payroll.

I guess we'll never really know.

Mike in CA

Sounds like a personal problem....