TRAKCAR

Or chip it for 93.

Deetz

Huh? The paddle is a switch. No feathering about it. None. 0 or 1.

I can rock back and forth on a hill, or just "hang" there, you're saying that PDK-S gives me that?

And BTW, you were incorrect about the 9A1 being a dry sump motor also, Mike. "Integrated Dry Sump" is more marketing BS, and I have on good authority that the motor is having "oiling" issues and that is indeed the reason that it is not motorsports worthy. They are trying to work on it for the CUP cars, but no resolution in sight.

Just keeping the facts straight...

Daniel L

I haven't driven PDK-S but SMG M3s, Ford's dual clutch in the Focus, and torque converter automatics all let you hang or rock back and forth on a steep incline.

orthojoe

........

1) 9A1 engine is not the same as the 9A1 based GT3 engine, which is dry sump
2) 9A1 engine used in the cayman interseries have not had oiling issues
3) oiling issues were in the 997.1/987.1 non DFI engines.
4) My own personal 9A1 engine shows oil pressures NEVER dropping at the track.

Mike in CA

No one is talking about the paddles (well I guess you are but I wasn't). It's obviously not exactly the same as feathering the clutch yourself, but in fact you will be able to rock back and forth on a hill with PDK-S if you want to. There is no hill hold feature with PDK-S and there is no slippage in the clutches when your foot is off the gas as there is with regular PDK to mimic the creep feature of a torque converter auto. The clutch will only engage when you press the throttle so if you're not on the brake and are off the gas the car will roll backward on an incline just like a MT. To maintain position on a hill you'll have to feather the throttle or hold the car with the brake.

As to your comment about the dry sump, respectfully, you are 100% incorrect. The GT3 motor shares almost no parts with the Carrera 9A1 except for the block which has been re-machined, cylinder heat bolts, timing chain, and alternator. Unlike the "integrated dry sump" of the normal 9A1, the GT3 motor has 2 additional extraction points in the oil pan, an oil wiper, and a separate oil tank; in short a classic dry sump. You need to recheck your facts, Deetz. They're a little crooked.

aussie jimmy

too true.
motoring enthusiasts party looked good to me.

aussie jimmy

great video from harris....again!
loved the interview with hales.
you can't beat analog.
it's just timeless.

neanicu

I don't think that's such a good idea anyway,you're prematurely wearing your clutch. Read here :

http://www.edmunds.com/car-safety/bu...nsmission.html

" Myth #2: Use the clutch to hold your car in place on steep hills. If you're stopped on a slight incline you must use the brake to keep the car from rolling backward. If you're worried about rolling back between the time you release the brake pedal and engage the clutch you can "cheat" by pulling the emergency brake. Don't fully apply the E-brake unless you're on a really steep hill. Instead, just use enough E-brake to keep the car from rolling backward. Then engage the clutch when traffic allows and pull away from the stop, being sure to release the E-brake as soon as you start moving forward. The most important rule, however, is never use the clutch to hold your car in place while waiting on an incline. Doing this will burn out that imaginary red light on the dash — as well as really burn out the clutch. "

All that sounds good,but if PDK-S has no hold hill feature,I wonder how you're going to engage the electric parking brake in the 991 GT3...I guess you engage it and as you accelerate,it disengages automatically..

I actually found this article where it says that the new GT3 has Auto-Hold function :

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/porsche...-ar104336.html

" Brakes Dual circuit system with achsweiser division; Porsche Stability Management (PSM), vacuum brake booster; electrically operated duo-servo parking brake, auto-hold function. Front: six-piston aluminum monoblock brake calipers, perforated and internally ventilated brake discs with 380 mm diameter and 34 mm thickness. Rear: four-piston aluminum monoblock brake calipers, perforated and internally ventilated brake discs with 380 mm diameter and 30 mm thickness. "



Mr Stout,any first hand experience info about how the electric parking brake it the GT3 works?

stout

Can't see any situation in which you'd want to rock a GT3 or any 911 other than to get it out of snow, and now we're talking about a truly tiny minority of users.

As to Edmunds' recommendation, nothing new there and sound advice. However, while living in SF on *** Hill, I found that adapting heel-toe technique to hold a car on a hill superior. Light turns green, you let the clutch out and, just as you feel it begin to catch, roll from the brake to the throttle in one clean and very subtle motion. Way better than the handbrake, in my humble. More control, with far less clutch slip than any other method I've tried.

Re: e-e-brake question: IIRC, electric parking brake in the new GT3 works the same as in other Porsche applications, and other cars in general—which is to say it's just as awful/unintuitive. I have yet to meet a single person (other than a car interior designer) who likes electric parking brakes. Not one. Maybe there is one here, though? Perhaps the mythical Mooty, just to keep us guessing? Funny thing is, if you count the e-brake, we're now up to 50% of a driver's direct mechanical controls gone in the last couple of years. I didn't count it in my tally because I never use it once I am going—though I have yet to audition for stunt driver in the re-remake of the Italian Job. As it turns out, one development engineer mentioned there are plenty of his kind who hate it, too, and that they are working on a fix: a big switch for the center console that looks like....a miniature handbrake lever. Couldn't tell if he was kidding, though....

wanna911

Stout, I use that way myself. Once you are sure of engagement location you can move slow enough to let the clutch catch and then go to gas without slipping the clutch much at all since it's just idle power. Easier to stall this way if you rush it or miss it though (in case of traffic behind you). Then they start driving and are on your bumper and now you have to launch the car. lol.

Mike in CA

FWIW, I wasn't suggesting that one should hold a car with PDK-S on an incline with the throttle while slipping the clutch, any more than you should with a MT and clutch, just that it was possible.

Interesting find by Nick (neanicu) on the auto hold function. I wonder if that's correct. Porsche claims that PDK-S has ben simplified by eliminating all special functions like creeping, sailing, eco shifting, etc. I would have assumed auto hold would be one of those.

Edit: Although it is a brake function and not a gearbox function so maybe it is applicable, now that I think about it.

Obviously the best way to hold a PDK-S car on a hill is with the service brake. Left foot on the brake, give throttle as required, then release the brake.

Petevb

You're responding to this Pete? I tried to be careful to say only 3 of 5 control are needed for control, ie you can stick it and D and not touch it for the rest of the drive.
Yep, for a few years.

Thanks everyone for all the compliments, especially coming from this generally pretty tough audience. Makes putting effort in to both clarify my own thoughts and then express them feel worthwhile.

Yea, no. Even though I'm technically an Aussie too (dual citizen) I've got a day job that I suspect I'd much prefer to that one, thanks.

stout

Exactly. Get it right and there is virtually zero slip. Worked like a charm in a CGT in SF, especially one night when a Ford Excursion was riding my bumper. In the rain. No pressure there.

For drivers who already know how to heel-toe, the leap to this is easy. It saves $$$, too. At 165,000 miles, I had to change the clutch in my SF daily (I bought the car with 80,000~ miles). I lived on *** Hill at the time, and the shop called in shock to say tell me was the car's original clutch. The tech sounded like he'd seen a ghost.

stout

No issue with the math. Two of five direct mechanical linkages are gone, with one of them replaced by buttons in the form of paddles (so no more mechanical linkage).



The MT is an exercise in patting your head while rubbing your belly against the other controls—probably why some won't miss it. To me, it provides a chance to do this:


...and, when you get it right, have it feel more like this...being all about nuance:


Agree on keeping PDK in manual. Had a Cayman S PDK for two years and usually kept it in M. Even so, it was no replacement for a real shifter and clutch pedal—for me, anyway. I ordered my next two dailies with MT even though there was an excellent DCT available, and my better half wouldn't have DCT, either. In that Cayman S—which I truly LOVED on track—street driving in Auto mode required the car to be in Sport mode to avoid completely annoying me with way-early upshifts. Always felt funny, having to hit a "Sport" buttonin a sports car. Almost like it should be the other way around, with an "Eco" button for those rare times when I truly didn't care—though I know Porsche can't do it any other way these days.

pete

Deetz

My point was that the analog nature of the clutch, which some of us like, gets lumped into the "MT" as a single feature. As in CL + GS = MT

No discussion on slipping the clutch and if it's bad or good, it's sometime fun to play with and enhances the experience that I'm in control of the car and it bows to my trifles, or dances to my lead...

The gearshift is also a separate human interaction device, and it's feel can be altered to the users preferences with short shift kits, cables, even entire cage assembly replacements that all enhance the joy of that interaction. I like a Snickty Snick like precision, as far as that can be achieved on the current linkage.

The paddle is a digital device, no ability to modulate it, it is clicked or not. This is almost all a digital car. Electric Steering, RWS, Maybe name it GD3?

It's going to be different.