Macca

This is from a regular Pistonheads poster who happened to get a 30 minute drive iof teh car last week. Very interesting as he make some good comparitive points with vehicles he owns and which others here may have driven (991S powerkit and 4.0RS).

"I recently drove a 991 GT3 and thought I'd share my impressions. It was a short (30 minute) drive, but it was on some great English B-roads and so there was a chance to get to know the car.

This car is a big step forward in dynamics. It is astonishingly accomplished over bumpy B-roads. The longer wheelbase and supple suspension give the car compliance in the real world that is so useful to making safe, decisive progress. I could not feel the rear wheel steer in action (one is not supposed to), but the turn-in was remarkable. Every new GT3 seems to reduce understeer (on OEM geometry settings); this car seems to have banished it. The car gives generously in the confidence department and is easier, much easier to exploit.

I wasn't sure what to expect with the engine. I have a 991 C2S with Powerkit - it's a fine engine, but it does not rev with the flyweight enthusiasm we demand of a GT3. So using this engine as a base for the new GT3 concerned me. I should have kept the faith. It's amazing - the internals (which I understand are essentially completely different to the stock car) must weigh next to nothing. There is so little inertia in the engine. It revs with an abandon that is breathtaking. The engine induction note hardens dramatically at 8,000rpm and the last surge to 9k is addictive. It feels smoother, more turbine like than the Mezger - but it does loose a fraction of the old engine's chattering charm at idle and lower revs. The exhaust sounds like a Cup car; it is far less synthetic than the 991 stock car with sports exhaust. Back to back with my 4.0, it sounded a little less deep, but thrilling nonetheless.

The PDK box is hyper efficient. But in Sport PDK mode it was a bit harsh with a notable thump in the back. I would happily do without that - if I have to have a PDK I'd rather it was seamless - fortunately it is in normal mode.

The car I drove had ceramic brakes. Interestingly, the surface of rotors was much glassier than the previous generation ceramics. Clearly things have evolved here. The rotors are also huge - I gather it is essentially the same braking system as to be found on the forthcoming 918. As ever, Porsche set the standard in the stoppers department!

The steering is the only thing I did not really like. It's better than the system in the stock car for sure (interestingly actually lighter), but it is still no match in feel for the 997 generation GT3s. Still, it is super precise and so it is efficient at its job.

All round, an astonishing piece of evolution. Anyone buying the car is going to absolutely love it. But then again, Preuninger and his team don't know the meaning of failure.

Cheers"

Macca

What makes this review more interesting is that I believe the person who posted this thread on Pistonheads was indeed the owner of the Blue 997 GT3 4.0RS which is used back to back in one of the EVO October issue 187 articles on the 991 HT3. For those who dont know there are three reviews on the 991 GT3 putting it against the MC12, 2013 Nissan GTR and 4.0RS. Richard Meaden writes the article against the 4.0RS and its the only one of the three where the writer has issue with the gearbox and how the game has moved on and left the purist/traditionalist behind in his opinion (and fair enough). The 991 GT3 however in every dynamic way as he says "pulls the 4.0RS pants down".

So whats interesting about the owner of the 4.0RS personal review on the 991 GT3 which we can assume he was given the opportunity to drive as a thanks for lending EVO his unusual Mexico Blue 4.0RS? Well you have a quick read and tell me.

As a very soon to be owner of the 991 GT3 I get constant hot then cold flushes as I devour every article I can lay my hands on to read, talk to those who have been involved with parts of the project or try to gleen from journos I respect via Twitter and facebook, youtube etc.

Right now Im having a hot flush. Our good driving roads (B roads mostly) are just like the British ones which also bodes well. My old 993RS tried to kill me going fast on such roads and the new GT3 sounds like its at home here. Ill reserve my view of PDK till I try it (never driven one) but everything else is looking immensely good so far. Just need a 9A1 Motorsport announcement in a few months and some more proper track reviews to come in and then we will all be fizzing for the owners reviews.

They new GT3 lapped a well know UK track in the article fractionally faster than the 2013 Mac12C which was a surprise "upset" for the reviewer for those who havent got the magazine yet. faster than an M12C around a track for almost half the money......whatever the future is for this car its definitely the performance car bargain of the decade...surely!

markow

macca,
even as an owner of a F458 italia i am getting hot flushes with every review of the GT3 i am reading--))) what a piece of kit....
i might see the porsche dealer and give a downpayment for the GT3 991 gen 2 to
relax my nerves.
i love the ferrari but deep down i am a porsche guy......
peter

911rox

Macca, what were the times of the four cars at the said track for those of us who don't have access to the mag???

Macca

Hi Chris. The GT3 went up only against the 12C on the track. The format of the three articles (spanning 20 odd pages!) was this -

2013 Nissan GTR so some great fast and windy switchback roads in the mountains and alpine roads in Austria. Outcome = GTR fractionally quicker in a staright line but slower on any given road as the GT3 was so well balanced, better under brakes and faster through corners, generally more planted, balanced and refined.

997 GT3 4.0RS on Meadens favorite British shakedown B road. As per above the GT3 was more composed and handled the roads better - pretty much quicker all round. Meaden preferred the organicness of the 4.0RS with MT more.

Last test by Jethro was on a small 1.5 mile track in the UK they use for testing. Best lap for M12C was 1.02.7 (note Pagani Huayra was tested a few months back here by EVO with best lap 1.02.5 - the GT3 managed a best lap of 1.02.6 but not until Jethro turned of TC (he already had it in Sport mode with ESC off)! It sounds like a really wicked machine on the track, astonishing braking, excellent front end bite, under steer banished very sweet throttle response (being naturally aspirated etc) and very adjustable on throttle and predictable.

Overall it seems the younger reviewers favour the PDK or at least have no negative view on it being in the car siting benefits on the road like more opportunity to concentrate on lines and the road etc) where as the older reviewers or more traditional Porsche guys like Meaden (owns a 964RS) have commented the find the progression a big leap into supercar territory and prefer the imperfection of the MT car and character etc. Its the age old debate of course...

911rox

Thanks for that Macca... certainly not disappointing in its performance as I expected! Great to see... Hopefully some more thorough track testing won't be too far away so it can be benchmarked against its predecessors for a greater understanding of the size of the advance... Certainly no question about it as far as streetability goes, its getting rave reviews

Macca

Chris now the magazine reviews are starting to flow its interesting to get a feel for what particular journos are saying.

Today I got Total 911 Magazine and there is a 5 page review on the car in there. It says very positive things about the car (only tested on the road) but makes only one negative comment in the closing few words it basically says its a perfect car but they mourn the passing of the old tech car and the advent of the new era. Ive cut the last few paragraphs out below for those who are interested. They gave it 5 stars at the back of their magazine and talk about how its moved the game on but by such a long way its almost refined itself out of the profile of expectation that has developed over the last 14 years for this car. Its an interesting perspective and I cant say I disagree. Whilst all the detailed reviews so far have been generally overwhelming in their praise there are comments by particular reviewers like this that creep in and make you realist you cannot help but agree if you are an old skool guy (like me I guess) but at the same time it seems a very exciting car as well and I imagine will appeal particularly to the younger generations amongst us (Im borderline at 42!).

What the new car seems to do very well is bumpy B roads. Its composure and sure footed-ness is repeated in every interview. Its stability in the wet and its stableness at speed even in damp conditions and the improvements over the chassis in this regards is compelling especially if you live somewhere like Europe, UK or NZ where the ash-felt is lumpy and twisty. It seem to be a very good B road car which will work well in stock form in Tassie and NZ Targa Tours - not tram lining, bottoming out or trying to throw you off the road because the suspension is too stiff etc. Here the PDK gives you more bandwidth to concentrate on keeping an eye on the verge, the road surface and thinking about your lines and braking.

As for DD I can only assume form consistent comments in the reviews that here it will excel as we all expected. It has a plush interior, rides better, easy to maneuver and here the PDK makes for a good traffic option in full auto.

On the track is where we have little data and where Im most interested to learn more. Only one magazine has taken it there and only briefly with almost no comparo other than M12C. The small write up is extremely promising as were comments from my engineering friend who was at the Ring for set up but apart from some startling numbers at ring and short circuit we know little.

My 993 is having full monoballs, Rennline front camber plates and RS front uprights/hubs and RS tie rods fitted as we speak along with fresh Hankook 221s and track day camber settings (-2.5 degree rear - -3 front) as we speak. With the motec its is nice and twitchy on the throttle. With the other upgrades it handles extremely well but no disguising a 20 year old chassis and shes a pretty hard ride these days on the road, very noisy (I have to roll it out on early morning track or driving sortes!) and very low (makes the new 991 GT3 look like an SUV). I need the 991 GT3 to be more forgiving LOL!

-eztrader-

Thx for the posts macca.

911rox

Regretfully over 14 years Porsche have captured our hearts and imagination as to what a GT3 should be and they have a huge following based on these ideals. It was a bold move to turn that on its head. The only option for Porsche in reality was to offer both transmissions on this one platform, one to satisfy the hardcore following and the other to meet the expectations of the motoring world (laptimes and figures) and those seeking automation... That extra little effort would have ensured that like every GT predecessor, there would have been absolutely nothing that any journalist or enthusiast alike could complain about... As always the best iteration to aspire to own.

It'll be a shame if the motoring world dismiss or tarnish the reputation of this otherwise stellar and amazingly capable car because Porsche were too arrogant to concede what customers and now journalists are eluding to and stray too far away from the original concept by dismissing a manual gearbox.... Maybe having a slower, manual sibling wasn't going to be such a big development drain after all...

911rox

Duplicated post deleted...

Macca

Chris I dont disagree with you but Im reading it a little different. I think this is the dawning of a new era for the GT3 and Porsche will drag some along kicking and screaming just like they did with the watercooled change and slowly over time all the electronic gubbins (look at the 997.2 GT3 vs the 996,a GT3 as a prime example of how electronic systems have crept into the car). Like most we find this both exciting and threatening at the same time and this is reflected more in the personality of the test reviewers than anything else.

This is why I was so fascinated by the 997 4.0RS owners personal comments on the drive he had in the 991 GT3. The guy had previously owned 996 GT3RS and many others. He has owned and lived with a 4.0RS for quite some time and yet he was unequivocally gushing about the 991 GT3 whilst the reviewer (Meaden) who doesn't own a 4.0RS was less certain the technology transition was a good thing (putting aside of course the fact a brand new 991 GT3 is probably now worth half as much as a used 4.0RS in the UK!).

1198r

What an excellent summary - thank you.

I admire Porsche, am a huge fan and have been for a long, long time. It took me a while to save for my RS - my first ever Porsche. I am now near the top of the list for the 991 RS. I absolutely wish they had consulted US - their customers - on what to do regarding manual/PDK, and it is a shame they did not. With the GT3, they had the chance to remain as the "stand out from the rest" and retain that cult following - those who want organic, rather than automatic.

So, we can still hope (but just a mere flicker now), the RS may have manual, but assuming it does not, I will still take the RS and embrace it. If I wanted something similar, I look at the GTR, the 458?? But I want the raw stripped out version, the FU?K you, get out of my way version - so where to next? The Nissan GTR Nismo, the 458 Monte Carlo or go even higher - CGT/F40.....

and here is where Porsche still win - the GT3 and the RS are in a whole league of their own for this price range and what they have to offer. Clearly with what they have done to the GT3, they are trying to keep alive those organic things we so love, but with the GT3 becoming a shopping and track day car (brilliant at both and so attracting more people and $/£ for punch), I REALLY REALLY hope and pray Porsche and Mr AP make the RS the bad *** boy it should and needs to be - even if it comes with PDK.

Macca

1198R. Well said. The RS will be PDK but I believe it will also have those other traits you wish for.

I am not wishing they had offered this car in both transmission options. It should have been Manual or PDK one or the other.

I also dont see this becoming a more usable car a problem. I often wished my harder core Porsches got more use but they were such a PITA around town. My e39 M5 by example was used much more often even though Id rather be living with the 911.

Also we have very different roads here than in the USA , Australia, Dubai etc. Our roads are like UK, Wakes, Scotland and some off Europe. Not miles of flat road, no concrete 4 lane highway here. The new GT3 makes much more sense in an often wet climate with tight windy but somewhat lumpy narrow roads like we have here.

I dont believe many of the reviewers have been negative about the PDK. Infact far fewer than I expected. Probably Meaden on the loss of some of the analogue feel of the previous generation cars. And the Total 911 article was glowing right up to the last few words where clearly there was a mourning of the past and a reluctant acceptance and respect for the future...

tmg57

The quote above represents a common sentiment that we have heard from countless posters in this GT3 forum as well as other forums dedicated to the 991 Carrera. It begs the question:

Q. Why do Porsche (and other sports car manufacturers) build the new cars with more "civilized" (read "softer" for the critics) attributes like more compliant chassis and suspensions, DCT transmissions, RWS, PDCC, PTV, etc., etc.

A: BECAUSE THEY CAN!

Does anyone think that early sports cars were designed to ride like buckboards? No, they rode that way because it was necessary to run very stiff springs and shocks to get around corners relatively quickly. Today, engineers develop chassis that can ride comfortably on DD duty and still scream around the track. Each iteration of the various sports cars have become easier and more comfortable to drive, yet they all perform better.

Yes, the older cars were certainly more "raw" but that was not by design. It was a consequence of the best available technology that could be brought to bear, at a reasonable cost, at the time.

Macca

tmg57. You make very good points there. This is progress of course. We always resist, we always have. Change doesn't come easy. Thats why the vintage car market does very well. You own the new tech to live with and make life easier and you own the vintage for looking at and taking out on fine weekends just for fun...