Petevb

Let's wait and see where things shake out, but I suspect this statement will prove false. Porsche's claimed Hokenheim time is 3% quicker than the best GT-R time and slightly quicker than the ZR-1 or Z0-6 Centennial. If true this would likely make it faster on that type of course than anything you've listed, and the Evo report from the OP suggests that it's significantly quicker on the road as well, at least vs the GT-R and hence likely for the rest of the cars.
We'll see...
I've never been to an AX with anything close to a 152 mph straight. I need to go to more autocrosses where you live...

wanna911

I didn't say top speed, I said distance. And there are plenty 1-1.5 mile autocrosses around. Plenty of autocrosses that take longer to drive as well. That was all this track was, 1/2 autocross 1/2 long straight.

Porsche didn't claim a Hockenheim time, they estimated one. Not the same thing. And Hockenheim short is another pissant track, its definitely an autocross track. Hardly an indication on how it will fare at full size tracks. Not only that, but pretty much every other time at Hockenheim short is 3rd party, not to be compared directly with factory test drivers. The supertest will sort all of that out. We will see how it does at VIR Grand, Laguna, Willow Springs etc. where most of the cars have been tested properly and there are masses of times that include all of the competition. I'm not saying it won't prove merit there, but it hasn't done anything of the sort.

Dude-

So the short tracks don't count. A long one at the ring.....no. Daytona Speedway? Nice oval with a few left handers where the lowly GT3 who lacks HP will get spank will finally legitimize the new rig. Keep digging.
Its just fantastic the way it is. Let the big brother RS fight that battle.

wanna911

No drama queening needed.

Any time counts.
1) Except for estimates.
2) And less so for a factory driver vs a magazine editor. (See GM at VIR Grand)

- A long one at the ring only proves it's slower than the cars I mentioned based on the times we have so far
- And these happen to be all of the other cars that have factory test drivers setting lap times
- The competition (McLaren, Ferrari, Audi) times are third party = no apples to apples test yet


I agree, the fact that there is an RS coming is a good thing, but how much faster will Porsche make the RS? That history gives no clear answer.

Anything else?

0Q991

I'm looking forward to some in-depth tests for the car against a track and against competition--and, equally or maybe more importantly, opinions from owners after they take delivery later this year.

In the meantime, I think the car looks very promising and should deliver on a variety of fronts--but not ALL fronts, since there's never usually an end-all, be-all product. But it should be more than good enough for me and I'm excited for it.

frayed

It's funny. 1/4 of the detractors (like wanna) are suspect of the GT3's all out performance in terms of track times.

The other 3/4 (like nizer) don't give a damn about track times and just want a 997.3 full analogue 3 pedal experience.

The GT3 was never the fastest on track (GTRs and ACRs were faster by a margin than the 997 variants), nor the purest (Exiges and Caterhams are purer by a larger margin).

So I guess no matter what PAG does it'll not make a bunch of you happy.

For me, I'm excited for what they are bringing to the table. More user friendly on street with a front end bite not seen in a 911 along with two bucketloads of horsepower with the response of a naturally aspirated engine with low inertia.

Macca

Pete. Great post you made a few pages back. Always nice to hear from someone who has a draft of different desirable cars and gives honest and real world feedback.

Mike. You and I have been around since the beginning buddy and weve seen it all. Haven't things changed? We are starting to get to the bottom of the barrel now. There is plenty of hard data to come although I suspect for some there will always be issues with whatever data is available. Some people just dont like this car. Many were probably not new cars buyers in the first instance.

Bill, thanks for posting those Pistonheads threads from Sefan (Steve). This is to date the only "customer" type feedback we have had on this car. The guy has no axe to grind hes a wealthy car enthusiast with a M12C, CGT, 4.0RS and 991S X50 who spends a fair bit of time on track and is a handy wheelman. He summaries it pretty well I think and to date I have found his brief but concise relay of the driving experience he had in the 991 GT3 and the comparisons with other cars he owns to be very very valuable (infact better than many of the short reviews I have read which wax lyrical about the car).

The track guys here are waiting for hard data. Right back at the beginning I was given quite an insite into the car during shake down via an engineering friend at the Ring. Of more recent I have head chatter from the factory of some quite extraordinary times on other european tracks. It will take AutoSport or Evo or similar to bring much off this to the world but I think we will all be satisfied this is as fast as you will get right now in a real world 911 on a decent track. Im not sure about tracks in the US as most off the ones in NZ are between 1.5 and 3 miles (similar to UK) but I have been told the tighter the track the better this car laps.

With regards to my own views on the 991 GT3 and how they are forming - despite being labelled a FanBoy I have reached a number of conclusions that need to be acid tested in real world senarios (Starting in Sicily in Nov and then NZ in March for a 5 track South island 2 weeks track tour across some of the worlds most scenic roads).

Ive been very happy with the reviews so far. In most areas the car seems to be leaps and bounds ahead of its predecessor with exception to a few points I mention below which will need further examination.

1). Steering. Its better by far than the 991 but perhaps still lacks the clarity off the 997 gen cars. Ive not driven anything later than the 996.1 GT3 I owned so I suspect I will notice a change here.

2). PDK. Ive never driven a car thats had a dual clutch. I like the concept and suspect for my usage of this car Ill enjoy the application and how different it is from my other 911 but I guess I wont know for sure until I live with it. I guess my key concern here like others is the engagement factor really.

On the positive side for thos eof us that live in places like NZ, UK and Europe this car seems to have recieved some very positive comments on how it covers ground on tarmac B roads with stability and asurity and this is a key issue addressed for covering ground quickly and safely on my weekend back road jaunts with friends so very happy with that benefit. Also the improved suspension feedback is positive for someone who will use this across the full spectrum of application (track, fast road, targa, DD etc).

Otherwise its to early to speak of issues of reliability, CLs (improved but who knows), etc.

Odds on the 991 GT3 is going to be a better car than a worse one. Porsche have consistently pulled us in this direction only this time its a shove rather than a push. Every newer generation of 911 I have owned has "lost something" and "gained something". Hey if it were all bad people would have stopped buying them. This time as I said months ago before the press started with it this time its a Revolution not as much an Evolution and I think Porsche needed this.

Heres a new clip. Not much happening but interesting in Agate

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUCze...ature=youtu.be

Dude-

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neanicu

The thruth is frayed,we have 6-7 early adopters enthusiasts on this forum,but the rest of those filling the over so crowded dealer lists do not post here,do not care,maybe some will read Rennlist... They like to show up at C&C with a big wing or at the dealer gatherings in full race suit wasting technicians precious time asking for a quart of oil to top off their ride. Believe you me,I've seen them!!! This forum will be really boring without the so called " detractors ". I'd rather read Wanna's posts or Nizer's and learn something. They make it interesting!

Macca

I dont disagree. Makes the place more interesting. As long as the debate is sensible and intelligent and we can all learn something at the end.

Its bizarre thinking of myself as an "early adopter". Ive never been in that position before usually buying 3rd hand 911s and always being staunch "old skool". Guess things change eh! Willing to give this new stuff a go now it seems sufficiently different and "interesting" vs the stuff before...

TRAKCAR

Looking very much to the early adopters video's and comments

Here's to hoping to be one of the first ones to complain and bitch about how lifeless the streering feels and how I never got over the boring PDK, even though the car is 200lbs lighter than the non RS on The Ring, Spa, the Alpen roads and finally Sebring to dump it back on the GTR Robot loving crowd.

orthojoe

True, but the same can be said for the 997 GT3. No different. You viewpoint is skewed because of the RL GT3 forum.

So much skepticism. Only one way to find out, right?

Mike in CA

This discussion about times and data will soon be moot, although lacking hands-on experience with the car it gives us all something to talk about in the meantime. Track times will be posted soon, comparisons with hard data will be done, the results will be very impressive, and the ranks of those questioning the new GT3 iteration will shrink a bit more. But as was pointed out by several of us earlier in the thread, some whose hopes were dashed by the lack of a MT will never forgive Porsche. It's a big world with a lot of different perspectives, and every change inevitably just leaves some people behind.

The comments about early adopters are interesting. Like Macca, I've never considered myself an early adopter. But I anticipated the demand for the 991 GT3 a year and a half ago and knew that if I waited for reviews and feedback like I usually do, I might lose out. I also believe, along with others, that the next evolution/revolution in cars will involve electric motors and batteries. The 918 may be derided by some but it's a harbinger and test bed for what's to come; the hybrid successors to the GT3 are already on drawing boards somewhere, you can be sure. I have no particular problem with hybrids in general, but would prefer that my sports car have internal combustion power. So IMO, a very few years from now the landscape will really begin to change, and I felt that the window for the kind of (new) car that I wanted was beginning to close.

By default, that makes me an early adopter this time. I'll just have to live with the shame.

wanna911

I think the car will be very fast but highly doubt it will be faster than the carsc I mentioned. With some of the postings here youd think it was the fastest car on the planet. While having done nothing for such accolades. Its still behind the 8 ball in my eyes. Mostly because no flat 8.

Im a big fan of the 991 chassis. Its the extras im a detractor for. I have no reason to want it to be slow. Because I know if done the old fashioned way it could be 0retty much as fast and a whole lot more fun (dream car). But its going to take a lot more than this article to prove its potency on track for me.

Time will tell.

Nizer

Want a manual option and want it to be lighter than last GT3, i.e., realize the weight saving inherent in the chassis and motor.

Otherwise want it to hold together and for Porsche to stand behind it if doesn't. Don't want people blowing coolant lines or losing wheels in front of me on track. Don't want the NHTSA to have to force Porsche to fix problems as in the past gens. Don't think that's too much to ask for $150k car.