Oct issue of EVO magazine
08-15-2013, 09:54 PM
#77
Rennlist Member
This is the mail I received from Jethro at EVO regards my questions on tyres. Its comprehensive. I made a mistake believing the white track test was on MPSC2. It was on the suposedly fractionally slower Dunlops. I will also post in the other as can no longer remember where the debate took place!
The GT3 used for the track test was on the Dunlop Sport Maxx Race tyre. It's an extreme tyre but also better in the wet than the old Cup+ fitted to 997 GT3 (which in turn is way better in the wet than the first Cup tyre that was fitted to the M3 CSL). Prueninger told me the the Michelin Pilot Cup 2 (which was fitted to the red car in Germany) is a bit quicker in dry conditions but that he'd choose the Dunlop for the UK. Both offer better wet performance than Cup+. These are the only two tyres offered on the 991 GT3. You can see it here: http://www.dunlop.eu/dunlop_uk/tires/passenger/sp-...
The 12C was on the P Zeros it is usually supplied on. I think it's fair to test the cars on the tyres that customers get their cars on - however, perhaps not pointing it out in the copy didn't help.
The GT3 used for the track test was on the Dunlop Sport Maxx Race tyre. It's an extreme tyre but also better in the wet than the old Cup+ fitted to 997 GT3 (which in turn is way better in the wet than the first Cup tyre that was fitted to the M3 CSL). Prueninger told me the the Michelin Pilot Cup 2 (which was fitted to the red car in Germany) is a bit quicker in dry conditions but that he'd choose the Dunlop for the UK. Both offer better wet performance than Cup+. These are the only two tyres offered on the 991 GT3. You can see it here: http://www.dunlop.eu/dunlop_uk/tires/passenger/sp-...
The 12C was on the P Zeros it is usually supplied on. I think it's fair to test the cars on the tyres that customers get their cars on - however, perhaps not pointing it out in the copy didn't help.
08-15-2013, 10:03 PM
#78
Rennlist Member
Want a manual option and want it to be lighter than last GT3, i.e., realize the weight saving inherent in the chassis and motor.
Otherwise want it to hold together and for Porsche to stand behind it if doesn't. Don't want people blowing coolant lines or losing wheels in front of me on track. Don't want the NHTSA to have to force Porsche to fix problems as in the past gens. Don't think that's too much to ask for $150k car.
Otherwise want it to hold together and for Porsche to stand behind it if doesn't. Don't want people blowing coolant lines or losing wheels in front of me on track. Don't want the NHTSA to have to force Porsche to fix problems as in the past gens. Don't think that's too much to ask for $150k car.
The Corvette is a cheap manual, the .2RS is a great manual, 996CUP is a great manual. Tried 1 out of 3, 2 to + reading lots more first hand experience on 991 gt3 (I will beg to instruct in one or I might steal one if someone leaves the keys in it at Sebring) before the RS arrives for a euro delivery test drive.....
08-15-2013, 10:16 PM
#79
Rennlist Member
Slightly off topic.
I just got off from a chat from a test engineer friend. Hes been reading this thread and a few of the others as well as the EVO articles. He cant believe the journos are choosing to compare this car with the 4.0RS for feel and feedback. The 4.0RS like he said is the absolute pinnacle of the water-cooled generation for Porsche road cars, uncompromising, hard, motorsports derived and stripped down. The 991 GT3 as he points out is the bog standard vanilla flavoured GT3 road car and we are comparing a limited edition race car for the road which costs 250k against a 135k base model. He wasnt surprised the 4.0RS had more driver engagement - hes done plenty of Ring laps in one and said its as compromised as the water-cooled generation ever got. Interestingly hes cracked two windowscreens in them (they are thinner glass apparently) on fast road work and one on the Ring....
I asked about if he knew anything about the new engine in motorsports. He doesnt but understands there is some testing with a new motorsport product at the Ring later this year and it is quite likely a DFI engine.
I just got off from a chat from a test engineer friend. Hes been reading this thread and a few of the others as well as the EVO articles. He cant believe the journos are choosing to compare this car with the 4.0RS for feel and feedback. The 4.0RS like he said is the absolute pinnacle of the water-cooled generation for Porsche road cars, uncompromising, hard, motorsports derived and stripped down. The 991 GT3 as he points out is the bog standard vanilla flavoured GT3 road car and we are comparing a limited edition race car for the road which costs 250k against a 135k base model. He wasnt surprised the 4.0RS had more driver engagement - hes done plenty of Ring laps in one and said its as compromised as the water-cooled generation ever got. Interestingly hes cracked two windowscreens in them (they are thinner glass apparently) on fast road work and one on the Ring....
I asked about if he knew anything about the new engine in motorsports. He doesnt but understands there is some testing with a new motorsport product at the Ring later this year and it is quite likely a DFI engine.
08-15-2013, 10:17 PM
#80
Three Wheelin'
<snip>
But it's no different than claiming the car is a world beater and bargain of the century by 991 GT3 fanboys. I can think of 5 cars off the top of my head that are cheaper and faster. GT-R, ZR1, Z06 centennial, Generation IV Viper ACR and probably the gen 5 viper as well. Which makes it odd to me they didn't make a way to test the GT-R they had for some real validation.
<snip>
We won't likely get to see a true comparison of the cars until they get to a track and are on the same tires with similar drivers. But for now it's all fluff if you have any clue on what you are looking at when mags come across with comparos.
When the car is tested on tracks that already have lots of high benchmarks set, there won't be any questioning it. But we haven't crossed that bridge yet.
But it's no different than claiming the car is a world beater and bargain of the century by 991 GT3 fanboys. I can think of 5 cars off the top of my head that are cheaper and faster. GT-R, ZR1, Z06 centennial, Generation IV Viper ACR and probably the gen 5 viper as well. Which makes it odd to me they didn't make a way to test the GT-R they had for some real validation.
<snip>
We won't likely get to see a true comparison of the cars until they get to a track and are on the same tires with similar drivers. But for now it's all fluff if you have any clue on what you are looking at when mags come across with comparos.
When the car is tested on tracks that already have lots of high benchmarks set, there won't be any questioning it. But we haven't crossed that bridge yet.
My Z06 was similar to the one Jan Magnussen ran on the ring for a 7:42.99 without the Magnetic Selective Ride Control, the Carbon Ceramic Brakes, slightly smaller wheels and no aero additions. My ZR1 has all those features and a bunch of additional carbon fiber parts just like the one Jim Mero ran on the ring for a 7:19.63.
Before I sold my Z06 I was completely punch drunk over the ZR1, I was convinced it was better in every way over the Z06. Now having some experience with both cars I can say I found the Z06 more endearing. To me the steering felt a little sharper, the steering tune on the ZR1 is almost too light. The Z06 small block 7.0 litre motor makes such a wonderful noise as you wind it up to the 7000 RPM redline !
Now that I've rambled on a bit, my point is just because a ZR1 or a Viper ACR is may be faster on the Nurburgring or the Grand Course at VIR doesn't mean that I want it more than a GT3. I'll be replacing my ZR1 with the GT3.
I realized I'd never put a cage in the ZR1 and I'm old enough to realize that I don't have to be the one to make a mistake at the track for my track day to end very, very badly. So for track days, I bought a dedicated track car - I've got thick skin so you can poke fun if you like when I tell you it's a Spec Miata. My track car requirements started with Safe and ended with Cheap / Plentiful so if it gets wadded up at the track, I'll buy another one and not miss a beat.
On a separate note, I'm not aware of any of the magazine formal tests where they put all the cars on the same tire. Is there one that I should be watching for?
Ryan
08-15-2013, 10:27 PM
#82
Rennlist Member
Slightly off topic.
I just got off from a chat from a test engineer friend. Hes been reading this thread and a few of the others as well as the EVO articles. He cant believe the journos are choosing to compare this car with the 4.0RS for feel and feedback. The 4.0RS like he said is the absolute pinnacle of the water-cooled generation for Porsche road cars, uncompromising, hard, motorsports derived and stripped down. The 991 GT3 as he points out is the bog standard vanilla flavoured GT3 road car and we are comparing a limited edition race car for the road which costs 250k against a 135k base model. He wasnt surprised the 4.0RS had more driver engagement - hes done plenty of Ring laps in one and said its as compromised as the water-cooled generation ever got. Interestingly hes cracked two windowscreens in them (they are thinner glass apparently) on fast road work and one on the Ring....
I asked about if he knew anything about the new engine in motorsports. He doesnt but understands there is some testing with a new motorsport product at the Ring later this year and it is quite likely a DFI engine.
I just got off from a chat from a test engineer friend. Hes been reading this thread and a few of the others as well as the EVO articles. He cant believe the journos are choosing to compare this car with the 4.0RS for feel and feedback. The 4.0RS like he said is the absolute pinnacle of the water-cooled generation for Porsche road cars, uncompromising, hard, motorsports derived and stripped down. The 991 GT3 as he points out is the bog standard vanilla flavoured GT3 road car and we are comparing a limited edition race car for the road which costs 250k against a 135k base model. He wasnt surprised the 4.0RS had more driver engagement - hes done plenty of Ring laps in one and said its as compromised as the water-cooled generation ever got. Interestingly hes cracked two windowscreens in them (they are thinner glass apparently) on fast road work and one on the Ring....
I asked about if he knew anything about the new engine in motorsports. He doesnt but understands there is some testing with a new motorsport product at the Ring later this year and it is quite likely a DFI engine.
The Bog standard vanilla GT3 is freaking expensive the RS might be out of my league.
I can only shiver at Kiwi pricing.
Thinner glass I never heard of. No problem I always use Clearplex.
08-15-2013, 10:33 PM
#84
Rennlist Member
Reidry bought a piñata, haha....
Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.... 80mph..
Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.... 80mph..
08-15-2013, 10:41 PM
#88
Three Wheelin'
08-15-2013, 10:54 PM
#90
Nordschleife Master
Want a manual option and want it to be lighter than last GT3, i.e., realize the weight saving inherent in the chassis and motor.
Otherwise want it to hold together and for Porsche to stand behind it if doesn't. Don't want people blowing coolant lines or losing wheels in front of me on track. Don't want the NHTSA to have to force Porsche to fix problems as in the past gens. Don't think that's too much to ask for $150k car.
Otherwise want it to hold together and for Porsche to stand behind it if doesn't. Don't want people blowing coolant lines or losing wheels in front of me on track. Don't want the NHTSA to have to force Porsche to fix problems as in the past gens. Don't think that's too much to ask for $150k car.