gt2r

KERS would work on a track but is totally worthless on the street. That fly wheel generating the power of KERS needs a full lap of braking to get it spinning. In day to day driving it would generate 0% power. Not totally agreeing with the 918 batteries but at least they will provide power when it is needed and will recharge quickly. So a choice between those 2 I would go with the electric today.

Suzy991

Okay I admit, you have a point there...
But wouldn't it be awesome if the 918 just had that magnificent V8 and not all the weight of that hybrid system? It would be a lot less heavy, making the power to weight ratio better....
Maybe I'm just not really into hybrid technology and electric cars yet... Have to get used to it I think

Nevertheless... I became very thankfull it exists in the last couple of weeks (thank you TSLA! )

Suzy991

Carrera GT

That's no so -- the lap of a race track is a hostile place for hybrids. Long periods of full power (if the driver is on the ball) and compressed periods of braking give KERS or any regenerative system, the worst case scenario.

Study regenerative braking in hybrids -- slow-n-go, stop-start driving creates a net positive effect on state of charge, while higher speeds and peak braking produce a net loss. You can see this played out IRL when an obnoxious "hypermiler" thinks the peak hour commute lane is a good place and time to practice their pursuit of fractional increases in mpg. The technique of "pulse and glide" is a good example that leads to all kinds of "not quite as expected" aspects of covering distance with the lowest net energy loss.

Race drivers learn that their best lap times come from finding a line and braking points that result in the most energy spent per lap -- I think it stands to reason this creates the greatest possible net loss of energy from the fuel tank per lap. That goal changes when the driver goes from qualifying to racing, whether it's an endurance race or a sprint, the driver has to slow down, conserve tires and fuel, "If you have to finish first, first you have to finish." The same is true in everyday commuter drag races: accelerate smartly to optimum cruising speed (say 55mph to balance a reasonable compromise of trip time versus wind resistance energy consumption) and then try to accelerate downhill when gravity can balance drag, and slowly lose speed to optimum cruising speed when driving uphill or into a headwind.

KERS or any regenerative system will act like an unseen hill or wind in your sails. The limiting factor is that any storage system cannot exceed 100% and any capture system has a limit to how quickly it can absorb or release energy.

It has always been this way, of course, physics didn't just "wake up and start working" when people started driving first generation hybrids like the Prius amd GM EV1.

Hypermiler "champions" can drive in circles around town at 100mpg but they can't sustain 50 mpg on a freeway unless they choose a loop of freeway with ideally suited hills.

Bottom line. The 918 makes utterly no sense to me what-so-farking-ever. Depending upon price, if Porsche brings 991 GT3 RS performance to a mid-engine car, let's call it 960, then I'll be a buyer, just because it's Porsche and I expect it will be a sensational driver's car. It just will.

Boxster Coupe GTS

Autocar's latest interpretation of the Porsche 960 Coupe...



...reportedly also known internally as the Porsche 988 Coupe!

Porsche's Secret Ferrari Beater -- Autocar magazine

markow

this usability discussion borders the ridiculous (unless you need the whisk small children around and they better be very small to fit into the 911 rear seats), when discussing real sports cars. i drive a 458 italia day-to-day (15K km in one year) and never had a practicality issue with it. this includes a 10day holiday in MC in winter with 2 persons etc. actually, i am thinking of trading up to the RS or the speciale.
when i spend 200K euros or more on a car, then the last thing i need is backseats
or a large boot. this is about emotions when driving the car and about what you feel when you approach the car and whether you look back at it once you have locked it. all this heritage stuff is utter nonsense IMHO. even porsche can't beat physics although they are trying hard with the TTS.....::)) and they have never ever understood the emotional point of view in sports cars, maybe with the exception of andreas preuninger's team. the 991 C(4)(S) TT(S)Targa....team cares more about preserving the fugly squashed duck shape of the 911 than about innovations in design, preuninger did miracles with the GT3 design.
peter

Hoopumpers

Ack. I hope that latest render is very wrong. Not digging the look

Zeus

Actually, I am digging the Autocar render more than any other I have seen thus far. Give it an upgraded 750+hp N/A engine derived from the 918's and get a CO2 exemption from the EU government, pay a 'gas guzzler/CO2' tax or whatever. Done. Sold. Put me on the list.

One of the reasons the 458S keeps winning comparison tests (besides 'cheating') is because of that great NA engine, that will soon be turbocharged and downsized in the next iteration. C'mon Porsche, be different, please!

rijowysock

i see a market for it, as long as its 250k USD and somewhat limited supply... porsche will kill it.. needs touring size gas tank, v8 and ample power and luxury and quality the same as 918...

-eztrader-

And choice of transmissions

mgent

Now it looks like a cayman and a R8 had a baby...

I don't know when this car is due out, but if it's to compete with the 458 and 12C/650s successor, it can easily go beyond $250... What's the average 458 coupe MSRP (not base, since nobody buys base)? I would suspect the successor to cost more... With the new R8 coming, new Huracan just launched, Porsche certainly has a platform to build on..

Also, rumors of a 458 successor being turbo charged, 12C being turbocharged, it would not surprise me to see a 991 GT2 type engine, or a small turbo v8 in a mid-engine format.. would be a killer car, but would likely need well north of 500hp to compete... aren't the others around 600+?

I think there will be a great market for this car, allowing capable Porsche buyers to move up which doesn't really exist today (918 is a big step up). My F-in-L has had 911s in the garage for the last 15 or so years, and at times multiple 911s, but currently has Ferraris and a lambo as Porsche didn't have an offering that really excited him anymore... GT2RS, but it's much more hardcore than he prefers.. I, and he, are hoping it's something like a non-hybrid 918, even if it were to cost closer to 400... can't wait to see what/if it actually comes!

Jimmy-D

The problem Porsche faces is; Can they slide up in to the 458/Lambo/650S position?? On paper it is easy to say "yes" but look at the 918. Their price is less than the La Ferrari and the P1 and they still can not sell them out. The other two guys can not manufacture enough.

Porsche has always owned what I call the middle market. Now, do not pound on me for that because for the average "Joe" a Porsche is a big step. But lets say for the White collar guy making decent coin who appreciates the finer things in life but also is a car enthusiast.

Now, if a White Collar guy was printing money he may just want every one to know how much money he has so a Ferreri/Lambo/ and McClraren are a status symbol. Still great cars like the Porsche( a step up but one can argue) but they do cater to a different market and clientele.

Hey, if I had an extra $125,000 to blow I would probably be driving the new Huracan or Ferrari.. But would I buy a Porsche at those levels. - do not know

Like I said; on paper sounds great; but it is not always about best performance for your dollar but for some people about BRAND recognition - Porsche is not in the upper tier and not easy to penetrate that type of market - just my $.02

0Q991

Jim--let's not forget about the CGT. It was not a hot seller by any means when it was in production. Over time, the following grew.

If PAG is aiming to move upmarket, there will likely be exercises like the CGT, the 918, etc. I believe over time, the strategy will work.

Also--the 918 a will eventually sell out...meanwhile all the tech will filter down to every Porsche model in some fashion over the next 5 years. The exercise will have been worth it.

mcsmcs1

Agree with Jimmy-D on this. If the 960 is to work it will either need to offer a performance advantage over the 458 successor or it will need to sell at a discount to the 458 successor. Apples to Apples, if I am spending 250-300k, I am buying the Ferrari. Plus, I know it will hold its value very well for the first 3-4 years.

Jimmy-D

I think this would be an interesting exercise for Porsche. You would really have to market this car.

I have been in the Commodity business for over 20 years. We cater to 3 markets which the first is the upper-end. And this is has to do with quality and not monetarily speaking. So, it has always been easy to move down the market but when you start in the basement it is really difficult to re-market/re-culture and try to capture the other market space for a long-term haul

FastLaneTurbo

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...58-rival?email