Nick

A true sport car does not need unusable back seats. What it requires is performance with sexy styling. All sport cars are designed to be impractical. That is their essence. It is all about performance and not whether you can carry golf clubs or fit a family into the car. For everyday life, Porsche provides you with the Cayenne or their sedan.

If the Cayman was made a little larger and outperformed the 911, the 911 would be toast. The 911 tradition and heritage would become irrelevant.

Suzy991

Totally disagree...

The 911 was designed to be a sportscar AND as practical as it could get. BTW... Backseats are usable. Lots of examples from people here on the forum that use the backseats and wouldn't want to give them up. I even think that the 911 isn't a true sportscar and was never designed to be one. Its a sportscar that can be driven every day. Commuting to work, go to a track, drive on that track and go home with it.
IMO it's a good thing that Porsche offers both options. If you don't need them and the heritage is irrelevant to you, than the Cayman is the perfect car. But I do agree on the fact that it would be nice if there was a Cayman with more power. It doesn't need to be bigger IMO. That would only add weight and as far as I know... That doesn't help being a "true" sportscar.

And if you want the real deal... Get the 918. That's a sportscar without compromise.

Suzy991

Nick

I understand where you are coming from. Often it is difficult to let go of the past and grasp the future.

Adding weight with appropriate power will not compromise the performance. The 918 is a heavy car (with its batteries) and does not have a backseat. My concern with the size of the Cayman is like the Boxster, it lacks gravitas. Its footprint on the road is of a small car and not a high powered performance sport car. Making it larger with appropriate hp will provide the distinction it needs as well as improve its performance.

FWIW, my wife owns the Boxster S and I have driven the Cayman a couple of times. From a handling standpoint, they are as good as any sport car today EXCEPT for the power and small car appearance.

Suzy991

Haha

I wasn't trying to convince you. Just gave my opinion. But I agree that both Boxster and Cayman could use some extra power, or at least the option.
But I understand Porsche's point of view on this. If they make the Cayman more powerfull it will be a direct opponent to the 911 and that will never happen.
And FWIW... It isn't difficult for me to let go the past, but the 911 is what made Porsche and if that would disappear, it would be a shame IMO. Brands like Porsche and Ferrari or Lamborghini should all retain their heritage, because that's what makes them all special in their own way.

And for the 918... It would be an even greater car if it would ditch the batteries and electric motors and loose all that weight IMO. (Not a fan of hybrids, I want to hear the raw sound of combustion engines instead of the buzzing of an electric motor. )

Suzy991

frayed

Maybe at one point. But the current Boxster/Coxster have the same width as the 911 and a longer wheelbase, but are 5 inches shorter due to more appropriate overhangs for a sports car. To me, neither of these cars comes across as small on the road. I was in Munich in March of last year (ironically visiting BMW headquarters) when I saw my first new boxster in the flesh. It was red, looked absolutely gorgeous, and anything but small. It had gravitas.

I would seriously consider a cayman if it shared the rear flanks with the boxster (to me the cayman still looks 'off' but the boxster is gorgeous IMO), and if it came as a GT version. I'd pimp that all day long.

hf1

+1 Their size is just perfect for a sports car, IMO. And I also agree that the Boxster looks better than the Cayman, but I may be biased (have an 06 Boxster S).

hf1

As I said: "The secret of 911's success is simply marketing and branding." But those can't beat physics forever.

triode

"Marketing and branding" didn't win countless races over the past 50 years. Let's not forget the advantages of the 911 layout in traction exiting turns.

It's flawed...but not fatally so (ask the other makes/layouts coming up short in GT at LeMans this year).

FlatSix911

Not too bad ...

GVA-SFO

Mgent wrote :..Yes, well done Mgent. I just read yesterday a note ..with a photo of the same car ! ..It is an i8.
Funny, when I saw (and hear) it, (and took that photo at Adenau (Nürburgring), posted on the previous page) ..it did not made the noise of a ..3 cylinders !!!!

scott40

^^ looks like a 599

GVA-SFO

Suzy991 wrote :No, nonono and no. It may be true for you, ..but NOT for me.

I bought a certain amount of 911's during the last 30 years (and used only "that" as daily), ..and NEVER because "it is a 911" !!
But, simply because it was the best compromise of a good wild sport car, and having some room in the back seats, ..i.e.: to drive my two boys at the school, to put two golf bags, etc..

Since 6 month, I got a Panamera 4S, ..and I'm now in search for a good Boxster S for fun and track days.
Or, ..I left the "best compromise" and will replace it by two pieces, that I think will fit the need, much better.
Public roads are since some time "ciao good bye" for any wild use, and fun on tracks ..requires , ..(this is my personal view) a car that have the engine at the right place, to have real good fun.

If public roads would still be like "they were" many years ago, I would aim for an MP4-12C, but now, no way Jose.
And, I will not put this amount of money for a track toy.

So, to be back on the topic, I have doubts for the 960, ..because the market (the usage of the cars on public roads) have changed a lot.
A good metric to catch it: In the area where I'm writing these lines, (named sometimes "Silicon Valley"), if take my car to drive to the next village (8 minutes ride) and come back, I will cross at least 2 or 3 (different) Tesla S. I think it shows what's up and coming.

Suzy991

That's exactly what I was pointing out if you read it in the right context. No other car is is that good of a comprimise between the things you point out. That is what made the 911 the icon it has become today.
Didn't mean to say that you buy a 911 because of it's prestige or for the show. May be true for some buyers of course and I admit that I wasn't dreaming of a Cayman when I was a kid, I dreamed of owning and driving 911 sometime, but not to show off to other people.

I drive a Boxster S now and I like it just as much as the 911, but for different reasons. A Boxster is developed with only one thing in mind... Having fun! And fun you get with that car, but it's nowhere near the 911 in terms of practicallity and usability.

Cayman/Boxster don't have all that practicallity that the 911 offers. they're great sportscars, maybe even better than the 911, but as a daily driveable sportscar, with reasonably usable backseats and the possibillty to drive it to and on the track, the 911 is unbeaten yet... And probably will be for a while.

So I say it again... You buy a 911 because it is a 911. There's no substitute

Suzy991

P_collector

Wow..and this is coming from a female..you really must be a car nut

Porsche: wake up ..

PS: still dont get then why you like a 991 Gt3 with RWS, PTV etc..if a 918 should be without hybrid crap..(?)

Anyway, if a 960 will be as simple as C-GT, or a 918 without that hybrid stuff..I might be in..but I fear that this car wont happen..

Suzy991

Hahaha yes I am a car nut! I'm a petrolhead, not an electronhead

As long as this hybrid crap is performance-enhancing (I know it is in some way in the 918 ) than I'm fine with it, but why the option to drive fully electric in a car like that? That doesn't make any sense to me. IMO that is just adding a lot weight from the batteries to make the car perform less. Personally I like the KERS-based technologie on the LaFrerrari and McLaren more.
Just hate the idea of an electric sportscar. Maybe it's just the fear that someday real engine noise doesn't exist anymore... I don't know....

Don't get me wrong, technologies like PTV and RWS are great, as long as they don't interfere too much with the driver's input. Have PTV on my Boxster and I love it. As far as I have seen on videos, the RWS also works great and isn't noticeable.

Suzy991