Porsche Cracking Down on Flippers?
05-26-2017, 11:39 PM
#61
Nordschleife Master
For last 9 years, I have purchased and owned and driven the following Porsche's:
Modern:
2008 Porsche 997.1 GT3-RS (Viper Green)
2010 Porsche 997.2 GT3 Cup
2011 Porsche Boxster Spyder (Arctic Silver)
2011 Porsche 997.2 GT3-RS (White)
2015 Porsche 991.1 GT3 (White)
2016 Porsche 991.1 GT3-RS (White)
2017 Porsche 991.2 C4S (GT Silver) - CURRENT (DAILY)
Classic:
’67 911 (Polo Red)
’73 911T (Silver)
’73 911S (Irish Green) - CURRENT
’73 911 Carrera RS 2.7 (Tangerine #440) - CURRENT
’76 911 Carrera MFI ROW (Continental Orange)
’87 930 Turbo (White)
’91 964 3.3 Turbo (Red)
And I cannot track down a new GT3 allocation from any dealer; sure I could find one out of state; but how is that good customer service? I have never flipped a Porsche. I drive them. I track them. I love these cars. I represent their ideal customer and am loyal to them. It's hard to not get upset. And I am sure there are many who have bought many more than me in the same situation. If Porsche truly cared for enthusiast buyers, then they would ensure people like myself and others were able to get these cars without the fuss.
Modern:
2008 Porsche 997.1 GT3-RS (Viper Green)
2010 Porsche 997.2 GT3 Cup
2011 Porsche Boxster Spyder (Arctic Silver)
2011 Porsche 997.2 GT3-RS (White)
2015 Porsche 991.1 GT3 (White)
2016 Porsche 991.1 GT3-RS (White)
2017 Porsche 991.2 C4S (GT Silver) - CURRENT (DAILY)
Classic:
’67 911 (Polo Red)
’73 911T (Silver)
’73 911S (Irish Green) - CURRENT
’73 911 Carrera RS 2.7 (Tangerine #440) - CURRENT
’76 911 Carrera MFI ROW (Continental Orange)
’87 930 Turbo (White)
’91 964 3.3 Turbo (Red)
And I cannot track down a new GT3 allocation from any dealer; sure I could find one out of state; but how is that good customer service? I have never flipped a Porsche. I drive them. I track them. I love these cars. I represent their ideal customer and am loyal to them. It's hard to not get upset. And I am sure there are many who have bought many more than me in the same situation. If Porsche truly cared for enthusiast buyers, then they would ensure people like myself and others were able to get these cars without the fuss.
Over it now. Looking forward to the GT2RS leaving $200k more in my pocket. I'm good with that. Reviews also seem luke warm from Bovington.
Life is not always fair. When one opportunity closes just look ahead to the next.
05-26-2017, 11:42 PM
#62
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
With all due respect, this is total BS. There are two easy ways to stop flipping.
1. Build more cars. If demand exceeds supply, increase supply to match demand at the price point you've set as MSRP.
If #1 is not possible, then
2. Increase MSRP to a true market clearing price that will eliminate the profit opportunity of flipping.
Either one of those would get cars in the hands of drivers and eliminate flipping. Porsche could do either one of those. They choose not to do so. As such, many of these cars will sit undriven much for years, just like all the RS's out there with less than 1,000 miles on them. It is what it is, but Porsche claiming their hands are tied is pure bull****.
1. Build more cars. If demand exceeds supply, increase supply to match demand at the price point you've set as MSRP.
If #1 is not possible, then
2. Increase MSRP to a true market clearing price that will eliminate the profit opportunity of flipping.
Either one of those would get cars in the hands of drivers and eliminate flipping. Porsche could do either one of those. They choose not to do so. As such, many of these cars will sit undriven much for years, just like all the RS's out there with less than 1,000 miles on them. It is what it is, but Porsche claiming their hands are tied is pure bull****.
05-26-2017, 11:46 PM
#63
Track the vin's from purchase to sale. Too many sales inside 6 months to a year and you place that customer on hold for future purchases. If they want to get serious about it
Seeing all those recently purchased GT3RS's show up at the dealerships within weeks of their delivery is nuts. Not true Porsche enthusiasts if they are exploiting the system.
Just my $0.02
Seeing all those recently purchased GT3RS's show up at the dealerships within weeks of their delivery is nuts. Not true Porsche enthusiasts if they are exploiting the system.
Just my $0.02
05-27-2017, 01:04 AM
#67
Instructor
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Chicago, Illinois/Naples, Florida
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Ferrari 100% is on top of the list. I feel like I am adopting a new born child every time I order a car through them with all of the threats/paperwork. BUT, that doesn't mean after 6 months or so they won't let you flip the car. I was talking to my salesman and he mentioned the story of the first F12TDF - sold after 6 months for a profit of close to a million dollars. Pretty crazy. I buy my cars to drive them, but it's a bonus when they hold their value well. Buy real estate if you want a safe investment, not cars.
05-27-2017, 01:08 AM
#68
Rennlist Member
It's a dilemma, isn't it? Want to feel good about our cars, about the value they retain. But we hate when we are taken advantage of.
ps: everyone has good points; none will solve the problem without f..ing up some other aspect of the whole process.
ps: everyone has good points; none will solve the problem without f..ing up some other aspect of the whole process.
05-27-2017, 01:23 AM
#69
Disagree. Again, simple solution. Build more cars and/or price at the market clearing price so flippers can't make any profit. Porsche could do one or both of these if they wanted to, but they choose not to do so. It's not like this flipping issue caught them by surprise. Porsche has made a conscious decision to limit supply and price below a market clearing price. That's fine and totally their prerogative. Just don't have AP out there spewing bull**** about how they're upset and trying to solve the problem. That is total, 100% bull****.
05-27-2017, 01:25 AM
#70
Nordschleife Master
Flippers will disappear once the uncertainty and abiguity of getting an allocation disappears. Make the allocation process direct, and 90% of the flipping goes away.
05-27-2017, 01:29 AM
#71
Nordschleife Master
Disagree. Again, simple solution. Build more cars and/or price at the market clearing price so flippers can't make any profit. Porsche could do one or both of these if they wanted to, but they choose not to do so. It's not like this flipping issue caught them by surprise. Porsche has made a conscious decision to limit supply and price below a market clearing price. That's fine and totally their prerogative. Just don't have AP out there spewing bull**** about how they're upset and trying to solve the problem. That is total, 100% bull****.
The problem is the ambiguity of the allocations by Porsche and the restriction of those allocations by the dealers.
If Porsche built double the amount of cars, they would find cars sitting on the lots. They build enough for demand -1. That is their goal.
05-27-2017, 01:35 AM
#72
Over dinner tonight, I tried to explain the Porsche allocation process to my wife. She listened quietly as I explained how it was unclear whether Porsche would agree to take $200,000 from us, and then said 'f them, just go buy something else...'
05-27-2017, 01:37 AM
#73
Rennlist Member
I don't see any solution.
1. If I don't drive a lot of miles, I don't deserve a GT
2. If I clean my car and stare at it in the garage, I don't deserve a GT
3. If I haven't owned a GT previously, I don't deserve a GT
4. If I don't pay whatever ADM is requested, I don't deserve a GT
5. If I haven't purchased 98345 other Porsches, I don't deserve a GT
6. If I don't track my car, I'm a poser and I don't deserve a GT
7. If I go to C&C, I'm a poser and I don't deserve a GT
8. If I bought a car then later sold it for more than what I paid, I don't deserve a GT
Imagine if the ONLY way that I deserve a GT would be if I made enough money to pay for one.
1. If I don't drive a lot of miles, I don't deserve a GT
2. If I clean my car and stare at it in the garage, I don't deserve a GT
3. If I haven't owned a GT previously, I don't deserve a GT
4. If I don't pay whatever ADM is requested, I don't deserve a GT
5. If I haven't purchased 98345 other Porsches, I don't deserve a GT
6. If I don't track my car, I'm a poser and I don't deserve a GT
7. If I go to C&C, I'm a poser and I don't deserve a GT
8. If I bought a car then later sold it for more than what I paid, I don't deserve a GT
Imagine if the ONLY way that I deserve a GT would be if I made enough money to pay for one.
05-27-2017, 01:44 AM
#74
Rennlist Member
Told countless times no allocation for GT4. Got a late allocation and built my car.
Told no allocation for RS. Wasn't even on a list....told no point cause we'd never get an allocation. Got very late build slot and specd car.
05-27-2017, 02:03 AM
#75
Rennlist Member
It's the hype that is created partly by us and the speculators/flippers that drives the madness. But as long as I get my msrp allocation, I won't complain. Most people are up in arms since the latter is becoming a problem, WTF.