pstoppani

I'm quite certain that Porsche makes more money on the Turbo than a Boxster; the Boxsters are cheaper than a 911 simply because the 911 subsidizes the Boxster. There is no reason that a 911 would cost significantly more to build than a Boxster/Cayman, yet Porsche charges more for 911; guess which one makes more money...

CP

Pete,

I think pl meant that as a model line, Boxster makes more for Porsche as they sell a ton more than 911s. You are correct that on a per unit basis, the tt makes many more $$$$$ than a Boxster.

I disagree that poseurs buy the Boxster because it looks like the 996. The fact is that the Boxster came out a couple years before the 996 debuted. I believe that is the worst marketing mistake Porsche has made: sharing the frontal components between the 996 and the Boxster. While it is cheaper to manufacture, it also cheapens the image of the 996 as well. For years, even now, I look in my rear view mirror I still can't be sure if it's a Boxster or a 996 cab behind me. I need to see the profile before I can be sure. That's troubling. That may be the lesson Porsche learned all too well. So now, they will make sure the Cayman line will not supplant the 911 line as the best-performing Porsche available. But then, RUF and other after-market tuners can fix that in 6 months.

However, the Boxster certainly popularized the Porsche brand en mass. My good friend Irene worked at NASA and the higher ups there drive Boxsters. To Irene, the Boxster is synonomous with Porsche and upper echelon folks. Everytime she wants to be nice to me, she'll say: Hi Pong, how's your Boxster? (I drive a 993 RUF BTR) I just smiled and say: Irene, it's running fine. Without the Boxster, she may not know that there is a Porsche at all. I never bothered to correct/educate her. It's cool that she sees the Boxster as the epitome of sports car pecking order.

CP

mooty

But then, RUF and other after-market tuners can fix that in 6 months.
____________
oh they sure did.
RUF 3.8L X51 conversion.
farbacher lowes GTR wiht 3.8L as well.

bet

I know, its just that I keep trying to push the existence of the poser group out of mind. I actually seem to associate the poser group to be people who buy the 911 (or better yet the Turbo) because they get to say they have Porsche 911 versus those of us who purchase the car becuase of something other than status. I am actually torn on whether the 911 or the Boxster draws the most status seekers.

BTW I never ment to imply the Boxster was a poser car. Actually I think quite the contrary. Its just that too many a$$hole 911/996 owners get upset that the car looks the same from the front. So what? You know why you decided on one over the other.

Telling story. When I had my 993 I did not it drive daily and in fact I drove a beater 75% of the time and took the 993 out just for fun. A boss of mine at work once asked me while I don't drive the Porsche everyday because didn't I want people to know I owned a Porsche. I replied that I bought the car for my enjoyment not for others to know what I drive.

peterjcb

I normally don't post here but I decided to jump into the fray after having visited a Porsche dealer today to look at a Cayman up close.

Being a 944 guy I'm more "hands-on" when it comes to wrenching my cars. To be honest, I'd like to see an engine when I'm looking at a $65,000 car like a Cayman. Where's the plexiglass cover that could have at least been put over the engine for viewing?? I honestly couldn't buy a car that wouldn't allow me to "pop" the hood to "tinker" with the engine.
I also wasn't happy with the legroom on the Cayman.

Not to "dis" any Cayman owners here but given a choice between a Cayman and a Z06, there's not even a question in my mind that I'd take the Z06.

I've also got a new found appreciation for the 944 and 951's, which with a few mods, can really crank out some power for a fraction of the cost of any new car.

ClassJ

There will always be vette people and porsche people. This conflict has been going on since the 911 came out in the 60's. Personally, I still like sitting on the fence.

Porsche should make the 911 different looking from the lower end models. The 911 should remain unique and classic but the other models should have different looks to them. That is how you protect 911 sales. Make the 911 distinguishable. I am pretty knowledgeble about porsches recent models and I cant distinguish a boxter from a 911 in my rear view mirror. An average person doesent stand a chance. That to me is not a good thing no matter how you look at it. BMW plays look alike games as well, but even with that, I can spot a E46 M3 instantly from any angle and know it is not a 330 coupe.

Even knowing all the advantages of a mid-engined platform, I would still take a front engined car every time over a mid. I want to see my motor. The sacrifice cannot be worth the advantage. Even ferrari knows this is important and puts clear lexan over their mid engined motors. The 944 is roughly the same size as the cay and has a really nice trunk for its size and two small jump seats for children or small adults. Is that worth giving up for a mid-engined platform?? On the track, sure, but I would rather have the practicality on the street.

I drove the cayman, I think it looks great, and I am seriously considering getting one in the future as a daily driver. The cayman felt great on the test drive, but what impressed me more is how great the 944 still felt after driving the cayman. Yes the cayman is faster and I am sure handles better, but I still had a great time driving the 944 home buzzing through corners. Steering, shifter, clutch, road feel, were all comperable to the cayman.

Now, my car does have low mileage (30K) which does make a difference I am sure. But for a 20 year old car it sure felt nice and sounded great even compared to a $65K new car, which is saying something for the older models I think.

500

The clear lexan cover is not a practical option for the Cayman, given that it has been designed with a hatchback and pretty decent cargo area behind the seats. Not only would the lexan shield not be the greatest thing to load luggage onto, but it would let way too much heat into the passenger compartment. On a Ferrari F360/430 this is obviously not an issue as they have not sought the practicality of the hatchback/luggage area feature that the Cayman has.

Actually engine access in the Cayman/Boxster is not that bad, once the access cover is removed. Most maintenance functions are not much more difficult than in many other cars. It is good design.

That said, I do agree that it's nice to be able to just pop the hood and view the motor!

BiggerTwin

The 944 was a great car in its day and I am happy to hear it is standing the test of time. Unless you are racing, the only thing that matters is the satisfaction you get from driving your car and if the 944 still does it for you there is no need to buy something new.

Alan

mooty

can't agree more with that!

and about 911 looking similar or not to lower end porsches. the fact is that for majority of the ppl (most likely not on rennlist), if they got the money, they WILL buy whatever car with the 911 badge on. if you call cayenne 911, then it's a 911 to the masses. it's a legendary moniker and nothing will change that.

rightly or wrongly and not trying to affend anyone. ppl aspired to own a 911, when was the last time you hear ppl saying i aspire to own a 944, a cayman, a 928 or a boxster.

drive them all and enjoy them all. one car isnt' better than the other.

Doug&Julie

The Cayman S and Boxsters aren't "lower models". They just have less power.

Jim Michaels

.... and carry the stigma of lower price.

BiggerTwin

Are you serious or sarcastic?

Alan

ClassJ

The boxter and cay are lower end models no matter how you look at it. The fact that porsche is protecting the 911 proves this.

So now we are to call a car with less power, and a much lower price a different name than a "lower" model? It is a cheaper porsche no matter how you look at it. The 911 is their premium "normal car". Meaning that the CGT is excluded.

And BTW, not everyone aspires to own a 911. Pretty, yes, would I ever want a rear engined car, hell no. But that is just my 0.02. It is just a matter of personal taste. They are great cars but I never liked their handling charictoristics. A family member had a 86 930 and every time I would drive his car I always came away with the same impression, fast, sounds nice, looks great, but handles backwards and feels wrong, and I would much rather have my 944.

Now the cayman did feel nicer than the 944, but not staggering. I can see having both. But the cay would get daily use as the 944 is used to the garage queen life.

BiggerTwin

In certain respects you are technically correct but "lower" has a negative connotation that isn't completely accurate. Would you consider the fastest best handling Aston Martin the "lower" model or the "superior" model? Are you looking at price or something else? If the Cayman S can lap the Nordschleife in less time than a Carrera is it less of a car or more of a car? The Cayman S is certainly less expensive and to some people has less status. To some enthusiast drivers, however, the Cayman S may actually have more status. While I agree with your position, I try to avoid emotionally charged words that cloud the real issue.

Alan

mooty

alan, i agree with your analysis. in the end, it's really about what YOU want.

i would take cayman S over ANY current porsches with two exceptions: GT3 and CGT.