Bought a Cayman S instead of a Z06
03-02-2006, 03:21 PM
#61
The post regarding the Z-06 with the engine issue is somewhat ignorant.
You can now buy the engine and computers for that car for 13,000 dollars from Jegs Racing cataloug. I think its great.
The car having an engine replaces is no big deal. Thats like having a transmission blow up from some inherent assembly issue and wanting a new car. The ignorance is that the car is not the engine and visa versa. It reaks of a misunderstanding of basic mechanical facts.
You can now buy the engine and computers for that car for 13,000 dollars from Jegs Racing cataloug. I think its great.
The car having an engine replaces is no big deal. Thats like having a transmission blow up from some inherent assembly issue and wanting a new car. The ignorance is that the car is not the engine and visa versa. It reaks of a misunderstanding of basic mechanical facts.
03-02-2006, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug&Julie
Does the Z06 go down the same assembly line as any other GM car? (I'm asking, I really don't know...) I'd worry far more about the build quality of any GM product than anything that comes from Porsche. GMs problems go far deeper than minor engineering oversights from Porsche (which get corrected quite quickly).
Alex, care to elaborate on your "Cayman is a dcontented Boxster" comment? Have you ever driven a Cayman S? Have you ever driven a Boxster? They're both brilliant machines...and the Cayman is different than the Boxster...
Alex, care to elaborate on your "Cayman is a dcontented Boxster" comment? Have you ever driven a Cayman S? Have you ever driven a Boxster? They're both brilliant machines...and the Cayman is different than the Boxster...
Concerning quality, I have only had 1 issue with my 02 Z06 which was a headlight motor. It is a very reliable car. I am a little dissapointed in the quality of its paint (orange peel) and quality of leather used on the seats but that is it. I think Porsche charges 4g for a leather dash which will buy a complete upgraded top quality leather interior from VE for the vette.
The C6 Z has a much better quality interior than my 02 and is acceptable but probably not Porsche quality but it obvoiusly makes up for it in other areas. (505hp)
03-02-2006, 04:05 PM
#63
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Originally Posted by Virtigo
I am sensing a little BS in that post about the Z06. He states he bought it in October of 05. If that is true it would have been one of the VERY first to come off the line. People with those cars were on waiting lists for over a year and a half if not longer!!! Not a "few months". I could be wrong. But anyone can hop on the internet and claim anything they want!
I'm not implying anything here other than to suggest that some of the BS your sensing might not be BS.
Re: my z06... yes, it was an '04... sorry for the typo.
03-02-2006, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by agentf1
The C6 Z has a much better quality interior than my 02 and is acceptable but probably not Porsche quality but it obvoiusly makes up for it in other areas. (505hp)
I can't agree with the comment that the HP makes up for the lack of quality. It simply falls in line with the price point.
03-02-2006, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by designman
Thought you might be interested in reading this about a cracked engine block on a new Z06. It was posted on an Edmunds forum. Of course it's an isolated incident but at the moment it appears that Chevy has no intention of replacing the car, just the engine:
"Guys, you want to hear about quality, read this! I purchased a brand new yellow 2006 Z06 on the last of October, after waiting patiently for a few months. Note that I owned a '01 Z06 which I kept for 2 years and recently returned a '03 911 Turbo off of a lease and purchased the new Z06, thus to amazement of some of my friends went back to a Corvette after having a Porsche.
About 2 months ago after not using the Z06 for about 10 days, my Z06 woudln't start. I called roadside & received a boost. A similar situation happened 2 weeks ago, but this time after 4 or 5 days of not being used... Obviously a problem, so I made an appointment with my local dealer to check into the problem. This was this past Friday 1/27/06. Otherwise the car seemed to operate normally.
The dealership checked the battery and told me it was fine, but when they were about to return the car to have me go on my way, the car didn't start! They obviously kept the car and later in the afternoon informed me that it was a defective starter... It happens, right, no big deal. They would overnight the part and fix it on Monday 1/30/06... No problem...
Monday comes and I have a very unpleasant conversation with the dealership (who by the way are very professional) and I'm informed that when they car was lifted to install the starter... they discover a CRACKED lower ENGINE BLOCK!!!! They immediately tell me that they will swap in a new engine! The car is 3 months old with 1,300 miles on it, so you see the problem! I'm demaning a new car, NOT a repair!
Mind you, I have a number of friends who own dealership and know numerous mechanics! I speak with all of them that same day on Monday. ALL state the same. The only way this could have happened is that the engine was overtorqued on the installation, thus cracking the engine block! This car was delivered to me defective and quality control (what an oxymoron) at Chevrolet didn't catch the problem! Fine, things happen... but Chevy, you made the mistake, rectify it and give me a new car!!!
I call Chevrolet customer support, and get a very polite, non-comittal run-around. When I ask the lady who is a manager to let me speak with someone above her, she states that she will not as per her "guidelines." Coincidentally, that dealership where my car was being fixed had a visit from a Chevy field rep. and this issue was immediately brought to his attention. He obviously okays the engine swap under warranty, but when informed that the customer wants the car replaced, refuses it.
I immediately file a Better Business Beureau complaint, and receive a phone call from a GM's customer relations manager on Tuesday morning, who is apparently above the customer support manager with whom I spoke earlier... He is told all the facts and promises to get back to me on Tuesday 2/06/06.
I want the car replaced & my issues with the repairs are the following:
a.) Obviously the Z06 is a very high performance automobile, the dealer admits to me they have never did this job on this car, I'm afraid the reliability & performance of my car will be affected in either the short term or the long term. Nothing against the dealership, but they have specialists at the factory hand building & installing these engines, and now this job will not be done in the factory? P.S., I would feel the same had they told me that car would go back to the factory for the repair job as my confidence & security in this car is totally gone.
b.) A simple carfax will reveal that this car has a new engine, thus substantially affecting the value of the automobile. Again, Chevy delivered a defective car, they need to do right by their customer and replace it.
c.) We all know that owning a Corvette is an emotional decision, and surely the way I feel about this car has been substantially affected in a negative way. I still want to have a Z06, but this car is obviously not the one I will keep.
Finally, I feel betrayed by Chevy's immediate reaction to my situation. The company (GM)is having a lot of problems as we all know. I feel that we, as Corvette owners, are the backbone customers and need to be heard and I think Chevy/GM is very dangerously undermining the core customer base with these type of actions. I see myself and others like myself as GM's #1 customers. Not only do I own their HALO car which states to the world, take a look and notice, the Z06 is what GM is all about, but I'm also a repeat customer having previously owned another Z06! I still have hope that Chevy/GM will do the right thing and replace the car without any further action by me... I'm still waiting... But I'm prepared to take all steps necessary, including legal ones... P.S. I am an attorney.
All contributions & opinions would be highly appreciated. Anyone else ever have similar issues? Any ideas in dealing with this situation? Needless to say, I'm extremely distressed by this situation!"
"Guys, you want to hear about quality, read this! I purchased a brand new yellow 2006 Z06 on the last of October, after waiting patiently for a few months. Note that I owned a '01 Z06 which I kept for 2 years and recently returned a '03 911 Turbo off of a lease and purchased the new Z06, thus to amazement of some of my friends went back to a Corvette after having a Porsche.
About 2 months ago after not using the Z06 for about 10 days, my Z06 woudln't start. I called roadside & received a boost. A similar situation happened 2 weeks ago, but this time after 4 or 5 days of not being used... Obviously a problem, so I made an appointment with my local dealer to check into the problem. This was this past Friday 1/27/06. Otherwise the car seemed to operate normally.
The dealership checked the battery and told me it was fine, but when they were about to return the car to have me go on my way, the car didn't start! They obviously kept the car and later in the afternoon informed me that it was a defective starter... It happens, right, no big deal. They would overnight the part and fix it on Monday 1/30/06... No problem...
Monday comes and I have a very unpleasant conversation with the dealership (who by the way are very professional) and I'm informed that when they car was lifted to install the starter... they discover a CRACKED lower ENGINE BLOCK!!!! They immediately tell me that they will swap in a new engine! The car is 3 months old with 1,300 miles on it, so you see the problem! I'm demaning a new car, NOT a repair!
Mind you, I have a number of friends who own dealership and know numerous mechanics! I speak with all of them that same day on Monday. ALL state the same. The only way this could have happened is that the engine was overtorqued on the installation, thus cracking the engine block! This car was delivered to me defective and quality control (what an oxymoron) at Chevrolet didn't catch the problem! Fine, things happen... but Chevy, you made the mistake, rectify it and give me a new car!!!
I call Chevrolet customer support, and get a very polite, non-comittal run-around. When I ask the lady who is a manager to let me speak with someone above her, she states that she will not as per her "guidelines." Coincidentally, that dealership where my car was being fixed had a visit from a Chevy field rep. and this issue was immediately brought to his attention. He obviously okays the engine swap under warranty, but when informed that the customer wants the car replaced, refuses it.
I immediately file a Better Business Beureau complaint, and receive a phone call from a GM's customer relations manager on Tuesday morning, who is apparently above the customer support manager with whom I spoke earlier... He is told all the facts and promises to get back to me on Tuesday 2/06/06.
I want the car replaced & my issues with the repairs are the following:
a.) Obviously the Z06 is a very high performance automobile, the dealer admits to me they have never did this job on this car, I'm afraid the reliability & performance of my car will be affected in either the short term or the long term. Nothing against the dealership, but they have specialists at the factory hand building & installing these engines, and now this job will not be done in the factory? P.S., I would feel the same had they told me that car would go back to the factory for the repair job as my confidence & security in this car is totally gone.
b.) A simple carfax will reveal that this car has a new engine, thus substantially affecting the value of the automobile. Again, Chevy delivered a defective car, they need to do right by their customer and replace it.
c.) We all know that owning a Corvette is an emotional decision, and surely the way I feel about this car has been substantially affected in a negative way. I still want to have a Z06, but this car is obviously not the one I will keep.
Finally, I feel betrayed by Chevy's immediate reaction to my situation. The company (GM)is having a lot of problems as we all know. I feel that we, as Corvette owners, are the backbone customers and need to be heard and I think Chevy/GM is very dangerously undermining the core customer base with these type of actions. I see myself and others like myself as GM's #1 customers. Not only do I own their HALO car which states to the world, take a look and notice, the Z06 is what GM is all about, but I'm also a repeat customer having previously owned another Z06! I still have hope that Chevy/GM will do the right thing and replace the car without any further action by me... I'm still waiting... But I'm prepared to take all steps necessary, including legal ones... P.S. I am an attorney.
All contributions & opinions would be highly appreciated. Anyone else ever have similar issues? Any ideas in dealing with this situation? Needless to say, I'm extremely distressed by this situation!"
About 2 or 3 weeks before the C6Z's initial launch, a certain horror story about the car started spreading around certain areas of the internet (namely Porsche, Ferrari, and Viper forums). It was about a supposed GM Regional Director... or someone who held a high up position in the company like that... who had received his new Z06 early (most all execs and the like who wanted one received their Z a good month before the public).
Supposedly, not long after this "exec" (we'll just call him that to make it easy) received his Z06, he had the same curious ignition problems. Well he took it into be looked at, and it was found that the engine block was cracked. SUPPOSEDLY the guy was demanding a new Z06 as well, but GM would only offer him a replacement engine. So he became ticked off at GM, demanded a refund for the car (which they wouldn't give... of course...), and started going around bad-mouthing the new Z before it even launched publicly.
Now of course, over at corvetteforum.com we tore this story to pieces
A good few questions arose about the credibility of this story.
1 - Why would a highly ranked GM employee bad mouth his companies own products?... Rediculous much?
2 - Why would a highly ranked GM employee have such a hard time with his own company getting the deal with his new car worked out?... Yet again, rediculous much?
3 - The specifics of the story (how everything was explained) didn't quite match up to what was fully known about the Z at the time. Corvette fans quickly realized that it seemed as if the story was more or less made up.
So anyway, the person known for creating this story was criticized to the ends of the Earth. Now what seems so fishy, is that the new story posted here sounds extremely familiar to the old story (almost identical in every way)... except that a few key ingredients that gave the lie away in the first place i.e. the person being an exec and such, have now been changed/removed.
Is this story credible? Possibly. But it all just seems rather odd, especially seeing how the person didn't point out how long he had to have his name on a waiting list to get a car that completely failed on him a few weeks later. If he got the car when he claims he did, about 2 weeks after its launch, he would have had to be on a dealerships waiting list for a good while (most likely anyway... there's other factors of course).
I call shenanigans.
03-02-2006, 04:23 PM
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My first post here. I am a somewhat biased Vette person. So take my post with a grain of salt. It seems on both sides there are a lot of mis-information. I will try to correct some.
Not to pick on pstoppani, just that his post prompted me to register. Here goes:
Feel is not something quantatitive. How do you measure something like feel, a very subjective thing. In fact, how do you expect a Z06 or even a 997 to feel the same as a Cayman? Let's compare something that can be measured, something you can put a number to.
Also, the Z06 has a 49/51 Front/Rear weight distribution. The engine sits well behind the front axle, pretty much similar to a mid-engine design.
That is quite an assumption on your part without any data or personal experience to substantiate your claim. This new Z06 is one of the top of the line product for GM. It may not be as nicely done as a F430 that costs 3 times more. However, I expect it to be better than most. The next few years will tell just as will the Cayman.
For some of you harping on the quality issue, here is the exact finding just pobilshed yesterday by Consumer Report. Read the exact quote here:
No one is making this up. Dead Last is your beloved Porsche!
Are you sure you are not making this up? I can assure you that you could not have owned a 2005 Z06. 
Not to pick on pstoppani, just that his post prompted me to register. Here goes:
Originally Posted by pstoppani
Actually, the Z06 can't do everything other performance cars can; it can't feel like mid-engined car.
Also, the Z06 has a 49/51 Front/Rear weight distribution. The engine sits well behind the front axle, pretty much similar to a mid-engine design.
Originally Posted by pstoppani
It can't have the quality of the other cars either.
For some of you harping on the quality issue, here is the exact finding just pobilshed yesterday by Consumer Report. Read the exact quote here:
Originally Posted by DEE-ANN DURBIN, AP Auto Writer
Consumer Reports said Japanese and Korean brands had 12 problems per 100 vehicles, while U.S. automakers had 18 problems and European makers had 21 problems. Asian and U.S. automakers have been improving their scores but appeared to stall in 2005, the magazine said. European automakers' ratings haven't changed substantially in the last four years, the magazine said.
After Lexus, Honda and Toyota, the brands rounding out the top ten for reliability were Mitsubishi, Subaru, Acura, Scion, Mercury, Mazda and Suzuki. The ten lowest-rated brands were Audi, Infiniti, Saturn, Lincoln, Jaguar, Mercedes-Benz, Volkswagen, Land Rover, Hummer and Porsche.
After Lexus, Honda and Toyota, the brands rounding out the top ten for reliability were Mitsubishi, Subaru, Acura, Scion, Mercury, Mazda and Suzuki. The ten lowest-rated brands were Audi, Infiniti, Saturn, Lincoln, Jaguar, Mercedes-Benz, Volkswagen, Land Rover, Hummer and Porsche.
Originally Posted by pstoppani
BTW - I owned a 2005 Z06 and loved it.
03-02-2006, 04:40 PM
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Actually, the fact that feel is not quantitative is the whole point. You can show me a million quantitative differences between the Z06 and Cayman and I'll still buy the Cayman over the Z06 because *I* like the feel of the Cayman better. I've driven many high performance cars on the street and race tracks and I can tell you without a doubt, rear-mid-engined cars, rear-engined cars and front-mid-engined cars feel very different. I find mid-engined feel to be the most fun. And in they end, fun is not quantifiable yet it is the main reason why I buy certain cars.
I thoroughly enjoyed the Z06, mainly on the race track (I didn't use it much as a daily driver; too loud), but you drive it completely differently than a mid-engined car.
Regarding quality - as I've said, I owned a Z06 and I've also driven C6's at the track and an friend has a new Z06. My comments on quality are based on personal experience.
I thoroughly enjoyed the Z06, mainly on the race track (I didn't use it much as a daily driver; too loud), but you drive it completely differently than a mid-engined car.
Regarding quality - as I've said, I owned a Z06 and I've also driven C6's at the track and an friend has a new Z06. My comments on quality are based on personal experience.
03-02-2006, 04:51 PM
#68
Originally Posted by TetraU
No one is making this up. Dead Last is your beloved Porsche!
03-02-2006, 04:55 PM
#69
I think this thread got linked to one of the vette forums. I also think I can hear the start of a rush to this side of the boat.
03-02-2006, 05:00 PM
#70
CarFanatic... I take all forum talk with a grain of salt. I certainly raised my eyebrow to that cracked engine block story. For one thing, he didn't elaborate on where the crack was, or how extensive it was. The RMS situation didn't prevent me from buying a Porsche, and if I was interested in a Z06, which I am in addition to other Porsches, one horror story isn't going to dissuade me. As far as I am concerned, if the story is legit, it will come out in the wash. Thanks for shedding further light on it. It's actually good to hear from people on the other side of a fence.
03-02-2006, 05:05 PM
#71
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Consumers reports is a great mag if you're looking for the best dishwasher. 
Seriously though, I can play that game too. Check out this link where the 911 places right at the front with Lexus based on three-year dependability (JD Powers).:
http://www.forbes.com/lifestyle/2006...s&boxes=custom
But the reality is, magazine articles and rating are not a very good way to form a basis for quality IMO.
Seriously though, I can play that game too. Check out this link where the 911 places right at the front with Lexus based on three-year dependability (JD Powers).:
http://www.forbes.com/lifestyle/2006...s&boxes=custom
But the reality is, magazine articles and rating are not a very good way to form a basis for quality IMO.
03-02-2006, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by designman
Cayenne and its electronic gremlins dragged the brand down overall since it accounted for over 50% of sales before the spike in fuel prices. However, the 911 and Boxster are considered pretty reliable. As a Vette person, that's one helluva glass house you're throwing rocks from when talking reliability.
03-02-2006, 06:02 PM
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On the other hand a Porsche, of any model, is more rare
03-02-2006, 09:15 PM
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Well....well....well,
Being the original author and originator of this thread I definitely didn't intend to spark THIS MUCH debate but it's fun to see. I'm very new to this particular forum but I am not new to car-related forums. I like this forum a lot.
It's funny to see how all forums have the potential for their threads to turn into rock throwing contests. I didn't expect it on a Porsche forum though. My last car was a 2003 Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V (a cheap car - below 20k). Granted, I loved the car and turbo-charged it and ran 12.9 in the 1/4 mile. My point is that most people on my "Sentra" forum were between the ages of 17 and 23. Now I'm on a Porsche forum and I'm seeing the same thing. Just surprising, that's all. It's kind of refreshing to see actually. It just shows that EVERYONE has passion for his or her personal vehicle.
It does seem as though this thread has had some "Corvette Forum" people join up and make comments. I welcome their comments as well as their membership unless they're just here to bash people or certain products (it really doesn't matter what I think though, this isn't my forum... nor am I a moderator).
I am glad that this thread has generated so much debate. That is why I join forums such as this one, so that I can learn about a specific car. This forum is a fun way to do so.
One of the Corvette guys posted (MagicMtnDan), "I submit that if you're someone who buys a Cayman S instead of a Z06 then the Z06 really isn't the right car for you anyway. Being satisfied with 300 HP instead of 505 HP speaks volumes about you." I DISSAGREE completely. This debate wouldn't be such a hot topic if Corvette Z06 and Cayman S buyers weren't interested in the same kind of car. I'll bet that most Cayman S owners considered buying a Z06. Although, I'll also bet that most Z06 owners did NOT consider owning a Cayman S. Bottom Line: They're two very different cars but I do think that the Z06 is for me. I had to buy ONE new car though. If I could afford both of them, then I'd own both. I can't so I chose the Cayman. I need more than just raw power. And yes, the Corvette is a LOT more than just raw power but in my opinion it is not as well rounded as the Cayman is. What the Cayman lacks in power it makes up for elsewhere. It's 75% pure sports car, 15% Luxury, and 10% grand touring (and that's what I was looking for).
Shane
Being the original author and originator of this thread I definitely didn't intend to spark THIS MUCH debate but it's fun to see. I'm very new to this particular forum but I am not new to car-related forums. I like this forum a lot.
It's funny to see how all forums have the potential for their threads to turn into rock throwing contests. I didn't expect it on a Porsche forum though. My last car was a 2003 Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V (a cheap car - below 20k). Granted, I loved the car and turbo-charged it and ran 12.9 in the 1/4 mile. My point is that most people on my "Sentra" forum were between the ages of 17 and 23. Now I'm on a Porsche forum and I'm seeing the same thing. Just surprising, that's all. It's kind of refreshing to see actually. It just shows that EVERYONE has passion for his or her personal vehicle.
It does seem as though this thread has had some "Corvette Forum" people join up and make comments. I welcome their comments as well as their membership unless they're just here to bash people or certain products (it really doesn't matter what I think though, this isn't my forum... nor am I a moderator).
I am glad that this thread has generated so much debate. That is why I join forums such as this one, so that I can learn about a specific car. This forum is a fun way to do so.
One of the Corvette guys posted (MagicMtnDan), "I submit that if you're someone who buys a Cayman S instead of a Z06 then the Z06 really isn't the right car for you anyway. Being satisfied with 300 HP instead of 505 HP speaks volumes about you." I DISSAGREE completely. This debate wouldn't be such a hot topic if Corvette Z06 and Cayman S buyers weren't interested in the same kind of car. I'll bet that most Cayman S owners considered buying a Z06. Although, I'll also bet that most Z06 owners did NOT consider owning a Cayman S. Bottom Line: They're two very different cars but I do think that the Z06 is for me. I had to buy ONE new car though. If I could afford both of them, then I'd own both. I can't so I chose the Cayman. I need more than just raw power. And yes, the Corvette is a LOT more than just raw power but in my opinion it is not as well rounded as the Cayman is. What the Cayman lacks in power it makes up for elsewhere. It's 75% pure sports car, 15% Luxury, and 10% grand touring (and that's what I was looking for).
Shane
03-02-2006, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Alexander Stemer
Offhand, I can't recall a convertible model cheaper than the comparable coupe.
Alan