View Poll Results: would you like to see the 993 and 997 style hybrid body panels (page 12, 13) copied ?
yes, would like to see lightweight copies sold by GT Racing or other vendor.
76
61.29%
sounds cool, but not interested in doing this type of update.
48
38.71%
Voters: 124. You may not vote on this poll
a few upgrades for the 968....
08-17-2012, 07:31 AM
#211
Three Wheelin'
Again have to say love your work mate, paint has turned out really nicely
does your camera have a white balance adjustment OD. If it does just try a few different settings and see if any others are more accurate. Trial and error is the way to go
peace
Cyberpunky
does your camera have a white balance adjustment OD. If it does just try a few different settings and see if any others are more accurate. Trial and error is the way to go
peace
Cyberpunky
08-17-2012, 09:01 PM
#212
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thanks a lot guys. i really appreciate all these nice compliments. i also wanted to point out that i made this thread for everyone to chime in about stuff/changes you guys are doing with your cars' (beyond the drivetrain and suspension), like changing bumper lights to brake ducts, doing over your steering wheels, shift ***** etc.... obvioustly i kinda hijacked my own thread. but, although i'm very outspoken about some of the cheap crap that came with our cars at the factory, i didn't want it to be about my car. i think that too often, cool stuff we do with our cars becomes the next, here today, gone tomorrow item on the forum.
i'm not yet running the transmission with the new gears in my car.... i'll re-post the stuff i put up before so we don't have to go around flipping pages.... the 1.32 'up gear' sounds perfect for a turbo engine. i'm not aware of any 0.97, but going up to a 1.07 4th (Audi diesel gear) from the stock 1.111 would be a much needed improvement after running that higher ratio 3rd gear.
all 2wd A4 diesel gears [w/ the 01e FPN FRL w/ 31/8 (3.875R&P)]
are interchangable with the 968 as long as the gear #s match.
4th with 4th, 5th with 5th, etc....
968 gears...
3.182 2.000 1.435 1.111 0.912 0.778 w/ 34/9 (3.777R&P).
Audi A4 diesel gears;
3.50 1.89 1.23 1.07 0.73 0.60
3.75 2.05 1.23 0.93 0.73 0.60
3.50 1.89 1.32 0.87 0.67 0.56
i'm not sure what you're planning to do for 5th and 6th gears. but if this is going to be a street car, i would either just do over the 6th gear for highway economy or if you do run a 1.32, 1.07, 3rd and 4th, i'd keep going and do 5tth and 6th too. you basically have to.
crazy as it sounds, if you do run taller 3rd and 4th gears, you could call Scott about running the stock 6th gear in place of 5th and then running that 172 mph 0.729 5th gear for 6th. i'm not sure you can do this. probably can't but such a combination would be great for running a 3.0 turbo, short of having a 3.444 R&P made.
what are you doing with the car, hp, goals, etc ?
old post updated;
i recently had my 5th and 6th gears in my spare box changed to faster gears, and i was readying to have the LSD installed.... but just before going ahead, i thought i'd give Scott Dewitt (Advanced Automotion) a call and make 100% sure that nothing can be done about the sizable gap i had between 4th and 5th on my LSx swap transmission... but of course, Scott's solved it... recently finding .87 and .93 Audi gears to run in the 4th gear slot.... either gear eliminates the problem of the not-friendly short 1.111 4th gear.
next,
which gear to select ?
the .880 4th gear would make 133 mph at 6,000 rpm (25.6 inch tire).... but on the secondary roads (and lower highway speeds) the rpms would be running a bit lower than ideal if attempting to launch; thus making the .920 gear the better option; the .920 will make about 122 mph at 6,000 rpm with the car near peak torque once switching to 5th..... the .729 5th will make 160 mph at 6,000 and the .600 6th gear will make 195 mph/6,000 rpm....
but, the fun doesn't stop there;
Scott has a *1.23 3rd gear to eliminate the stock 1.45.... so you're left with just having to deal with shorter 1st and 2nd gears. but, it's easy to see from the table that the rest of the way, the transmission is able to take full advantage of the torque and hp of the LS V8.
*Scott has options for running 1.23 or 1.32 3rd, 1.07, 0.93 or 0.87 4th, 0.729 5th and 0.600 6th,
outside of the stock gears.
.
i'm not yet running the transmission with the new gears in my car.... i'll re-post the stuff i put up before so we don't have to go around flipping pages.... the 1.32 'up gear' sounds perfect for a turbo engine. i'm not aware of any 0.97, but going up to a 1.07 4th (Audi diesel gear) from the stock 1.111 would be a much needed improvement after running that higher ratio 3rd gear.
all 2wd A4 diesel gears [w/ the 01e FPN FRL w/ 31/8 (3.875R&P)]
are interchangable with the 968 as long as the gear #s match.
4th with 4th, 5th with 5th, etc....
968 gears...
3.182 2.000 1.435 1.111 0.912 0.778 w/ 34/9 (3.777R&P).
Audi A4 diesel gears;
3.50 1.89 1.23 1.07 0.73 0.60
3.75 2.05 1.23 0.93 0.73 0.60
3.50 1.89 1.32 0.87 0.67 0.56
i'm not sure what you're planning to do for 5th and 6th gears. but if this is going to be a street car, i would either just do over the 6th gear for highway economy or if you do run a 1.32, 1.07, 3rd and 4th, i'd keep going and do 5tth and 6th too. you basically have to.
crazy as it sounds, if you do run taller 3rd and 4th gears, you could call Scott about running the stock 6th gear in place of 5th and then running that 172 mph 0.729 5th gear for 6th. i'm not sure you can do this. probably can't but such a combination would be great for running a 3.0 turbo, short of having a 3.444 R&P made.
what are you doing with the car, hp, goals, etc ?
old post updated;
i recently had my 5th and 6th gears in my spare box changed to faster gears, and i was readying to have the LSD installed.... but just before going ahead, i thought i'd give Scott Dewitt (Advanced Automotion) a call and make 100% sure that nothing can be done about the sizable gap i had between 4th and 5th on my LSx swap transmission... but of course, Scott's solved it... recently finding .87 and .93 Audi gears to run in the 4th gear slot.... either gear eliminates the problem of the not-friendly short 1.111 4th gear.
next,
which gear to select ?
the .880 4th gear would make 133 mph at 6,000 rpm (25.6 inch tire).... but on the secondary roads (and lower highway speeds) the rpms would be running a bit lower than ideal if attempting to launch; thus making the .920 gear the better option; the .920 will make about 122 mph at 6,000 rpm with the car near peak torque once switching to 5th..... the .729 5th will make 160 mph at 6,000 and the .600 6th gear will make 195 mph/6,000 rpm....
but, the fun doesn't stop there;
Scott has a *1.23 3rd gear to eliminate the stock 1.45.... so you're left with just having to deal with shorter 1st and 2nd gears. but, it's easy to see from the table that the rest of the way, the transmission is able to take full advantage of the torque and hp of the LS V8.
*Scott has options for running 1.23 or 1.32 3rd, 1.07, 0.93 or 0.87 4th, 0.729 5th and 0.600 6th,
outside of the stock gears.
.
Last edited by odurandina; 08-18-2012 at 07:30 PM.
08-18-2012, 03:38 AM
#213
Track Day
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Thanks for your answer ; Too bad you don't have driving experience with it yet .... I'm not aware of other guys doing this kind of gearbox mods ; would be interested to hear their findings ...
My CS is just for fun and a few trackdays a year here in Holland and/or on the Nordschleife. It produces 370 bhp and 440 Nm in the current low boost setup ( 0,4 bar ). After rebuilding and mounting the gearbox it will go to 1 bar and 500 + bhp is expected.
The 1.32 is in the CYB ( A8 2,5 Tdi 150 hp ), the 0,97 in the FRM ( A8 2,5 Tdi 180 hp ) gearbox. Those are the ones I'll put in, 1,07 is to short i.m.o. for a 0,73 5th.
Yes, I will use the 0.73 5th and 0,60 6th ; Running the 0.73 5th as a 6th gear is not possible ; sizes are incorrect.
My CS is just for fun and a few trackdays a year here in Holland and/or on the Nordschleife. It produces 370 bhp and 440 Nm in the current low boost setup ( 0,4 bar ). After rebuilding and mounting the gearbox it will go to 1 bar and 500 + bhp is expected.
The 1.32 is in the CYB ( A8 2,5 Tdi 150 hp ), the 0,97 in the FRM ( A8 2,5 Tdi 180 hp ) gearbox. Those are the ones I'll put in, 1,07 is to short i.m.o. for a 0,73 5th.
Yes, I will use the 0.73 5th and 0,60 6th ; Running the 0.73 5th as a 6th gear is not possible ; sizes are incorrect.
08-18-2012, 06:29 AM
#214
Bannana Shine
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Is your cylinder head in stock, unmodified form? If so, does it still use the Variocam? I can see the electrical connector is still there. What compression ratio do you have?
08-18-2012, 05:57 PM
#216
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(fixed for the .970 4th gear).
you're right. i should have run the numbers before posting. the 1.07 4th is too low.
my V8 setup....
ratio ........ speed @ 6000 rpm ........ speed @ 4500 rpm ........ speed @ 3000 rpm ........ increase (mph) from previous gear @ 3000 rpm
.600 .................. 194.4 ........................... 146.0 ........................... 97.2 ............................ 17.2
.729 .................. 160.0 ........................... 120.0 ........................... 80.0 ............................ 17.3
.930 .................. 125.4 ............................ 94.1 ............................ 62.7 ............................ 15.3
1.230 ................. 94.8 ............................. 71.1 ............................ 47.4 ............................ 18.3
2.000 ................. 58.3 ............................. 43.7 ............................ 29.1 ............................ 10.8
3.182 ................. 36.7 ............................. 27.5 ............................ 18.3 .....................................................
your setup...
(very good up to 5th gear for a 3.0 turbo.... 6th will restrict top speed but be very nice on the Autosnelweg).
ratio ........ speed @ 6000 rpm ........ speed @ 4500 rpm ........ speed @ 3000 rpm ........ increase (mph) from previous gear @ 3000 rpm
.600 .................. 194.4 ........................... 146.0 ........................... 97.2 ............................ 17.2
.729 .................. 160.0 ........................... 120.0 ........................... 80.0 ............................ 20.0
.970 .................. 120.0 ............................ 90.0 ............................ 60.0 ............................ 15.8
1.320 ................. 88.4 ............................. 66.3 ............................ 44.2 ............................ 15.1
2.000 ................. 58.3 ............................. 43.7 ............................ 29.1 ............................ 10.8
3.182 ................. 36.7 ............................. 27.5 ............................ 18.3 .....................................................
oem;
ratio ........ speed @ 6000 rpm ........ speed @ 4500 rpm ........ speed @ 3000 rpm ........ increase (mph) from previous gear @ 3000 rpm
0.778 .................. 149.9 ........................... 112.4 ........................... 74.9 ............................ 11.0
0.912 .................. 127.9 ............................ 95.9 ............................ 63.9 ............................ 7.8
1.111 .................. 112.2 ............................ 84.1 ............................ 56.1 ............................ 15.5
1.435 ................... 81.3 ............................. 61.0 ............................ 40.6 ............................ 14.0
2.000 ................... 58.3 ............................. 43.7 ............................ 29.1 ............................ 10.8
3.182 ................... 36.7 ............................. 27.5 ............................ 18.3 .....................................................
.
you're right. i should have run the numbers before posting. the 1.07 4th is too low.
my V8 setup....
ratio ........ speed @ 6000 rpm ........ speed @ 4500 rpm ........ speed @ 3000 rpm ........ increase (mph) from previous gear @ 3000 rpm
.600 .................. 194.4 ........................... 146.0 ........................... 97.2 ............................ 17.2
.729 .................. 160.0 ........................... 120.0 ........................... 80.0 ............................ 17.3
.930 .................. 125.4 ............................ 94.1 ............................ 62.7 ............................ 15.3
1.230 ................. 94.8 ............................. 71.1 ............................ 47.4 ............................ 18.3
2.000 ................. 58.3 ............................. 43.7 ............................ 29.1 ............................ 10.8
3.182 ................. 36.7 ............................. 27.5 ............................ 18.3 .....................................................
your setup...
(very good up to 5th gear for a 3.0 turbo.... 6th will restrict top speed but be very nice on the Autosnelweg).
ratio ........ speed @ 6000 rpm ........ speed @ 4500 rpm ........ speed @ 3000 rpm ........ increase (mph) from previous gear @ 3000 rpm
.600 .................. 194.4 ........................... 146.0 ........................... 97.2 ............................ 17.2
.729 .................. 160.0 ........................... 120.0 ........................... 80.0 ............................ 20.0
.970 .................. 120.0 ............................ 90.0 ............................ 60.0 ............................ 15.8
1.320 ................. 88.4 ............................. 66.3 ............................ 44.2 ............................ 15.1
2.000 ................. 58.3 ............................. 43.7 ............................ 29.1 ............................ 10.8
3.182 ................. 36.7 ............................. 27.5 ............................ 18.3 .....................................................
oem;
ratio ........ speed @ 6000 rpm ........ speed @ 4500 rpm ........ speed @ 3000 rpm ........ increase (mph) from previous gear @ 3000 rpm
0.778 .................. 149.9 ........................... 112.4 ........................... 74.9 ............................ 11.0
0.912 .................. 127.9 ............................ 95.9 ............................ 63.9 ............................ 7.8
1.111 .................. 112.2 ............................ 84.1 ............................ 56.1 ............................ 15.5
1.435 ................... 81.3 ............................. 61.0 ............................ 40.6 ............................ 14.0
2.000 ................... 58.3 ............................. 43.7 ............................ 29.1 ............................ 10.8
3.182 ................... 36.7 ............................. 27.5 ............................ 18.3 .....................................................
.
Last edited by odurandina; 08-18-2012 at 08:19 PM.
08-18-2012, 07:22 PM
#218
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fixed.
ratio ........ speed @ 6000 rpm ........ speed @ 4500 rpm ........ speed @ 3000 rpm ........ increase (mph) from previous gear @ 3000 rpm
.600 .................. 194.4 ........................... 146.0 ........................... 97.2 ............................ 17.2
.729 .................. 160.0 ........................... 120.0 ........................... 80.0 ............................ 20.0
.970 .................. 120.0 ............................ 90.0 ............................ 60.0 ............................ 15.8
1.320 ................. 88.4 ............................. 66.3 ............................ 44.2 ............................ 15.1
2.000 ................. 58.3 ............................. 43.7 ............................ 29.1 ............................ 10.8
3.182 ................. 36.7 ............................. 27.5 ............................ 18.3 .....................................................
running the tall 4th, 5th and 6th with the 1.23 3rd vs the 1.32 3rd.....
ratio ........ speed @ 6000 rpm ........ speed @ 4500 rpm ........ speed @ 3000 rpm ........ increase (mph) from previous gear @ 3000 rpm
.600 .................. 194.4 ........................... 146.0 ........................... 97.2 ............................ 17.2
.729 .................. 160.0 ........................... 120.0 ........................... 80.0 ............................ 17.3
.930 .................. 125.4 ............................ 94.1 ............................ 62.7 ............................ 15.3
1.230 ................. 94.8 ............................. 71.1 ............................ 47.4 ............................ 18.3
2.000 ................. 58.3 ............................. 43.7 ............................ 29.1 ............................ 10.8
3.182 ................. 36.7 ............................. 27.5 ............................ 18.3 .....................................................
ratio ........ speed @ 6000 rpm ........ speed @ 4500 rpm ........ speed @ 3000 rpm ........ increase (mph) from previous gear @ 3000 rpm
.600 .................. 194.4 ........................... 146.0 ........................... 97.2 ............................ 17.2
.729 .................. 160.0 ........................... 120.0 ........................... 80.0 ............................ 17.3
.930 .................. 125.4 ............................ 94.1 ............................ 62.7 ............................ 18.5
1.320 ................. 88.4 ............................. 66.3 ............................ 44.2 ............................ 15.1
2.000 ................. 58.3 ............................. 43.7 ............................ 29.1 ............................ 10.8
3.182 ................. 36.7 ............................. 27.5 ............................ 18.3 .....................................................
.
ratio ........ speed @ 6000 rpm ........ speed @ 4500 rpm ........ speed @ 3000 rpm ........ increase (mph) from previous gear @ 3000 rpm
.600 .................. 194.4 ........................... 146.0 ........................... 97.2 ............................ 17.2
.729 .................. 160.0 ........................... 120.0 ........................... 80.0 ............................ 20.0
.970 .................. 120.0 ............................ 90.0 ............................ 60.0 ............................ 15.8
1.320 ................. 88.4 ............................. 66.3 ............................ 44.2 ............................ 15.1
2.000 ................. 58.3 ............................. 43.7 ............................ 29.1 ............................ 10.8
3.182 ................. 36.7 ............................. 27.5 ............................ 18.3 .....................................................
running the tall 4th, 5th and 6th with the 1.23 3rd vs the 1.32 3rd.....
ratio ........ speed @ 6000 rpm ........ speed @ 4500 rpm ........ speed @ 3000 rpm ........ increase (mph) from previous gear @ 3000 rpm
.600 .................. 194.4 ........................... 146.0 ........................... 97.2 ............................ 17.2
.729 .................. 160.0 ........................... 120.0 ........................... 80.0 ............................ 17.3
.930 .................. 125.4 ............................ 94.1 ............................ 62.7 ............................ 15.3
1.230 ................. 94.8 ............................. 71.1 ............................ 47.4 ............................ 18.3
2.000 ................. 58.3 ............................. 43.7 ............................ 29.1 ............................ 10.8
3.182 ................. 36.7 ............................. 27.5 ............................ 18.3 .....................................................
ratio ........ speed @ 6000 rpm ........ speed @ 4500 rpm ........ speed @ 3000 rpm ........ increase (mph) from previous gear @ 3000 rpm
.600 .................. 194.4 ........................... 146.0 ........................... 97.2 ............................ 17.2
.729 .................. 160.0 ........................... 120.0 ........................... 80.0 ............................ 17.3
.930 .................. 125.4 ............................ 94.1 ............................ 62.7 ............................ 18.5
1.320 ................. 88.4 ............................. 66.3 ............................ 44.2 ............................ 15.1
2.000 ................. 58.3 ............................. 43.7 ............................ 29.1 ............................ 10.8
3.182 ................. 36.7 ............................. 27.5 ............................ 18.3 .....................................................
.
Last edited by odurandina; 08-28-2012 at 06:41 PM.
08-19-2012, 03:04 AM
#219
Burning Brakes
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How did I miss this?
Excellent work on bumper and headlight conversion.
Looks like I need to head out to the east coast some time soon and meet all you nutcases.
Get any calls from Porsche legal about the missing schematics for the 968 S2?
Excellent work on bumper and headlight conversion.
Looks like I need to head out to the east coast some time soon and meet all you nutcases.
Get any calls from Porsche legal about the missing schematics for the 968 S2?
08-19-2012, 03:12 PM
#220
Bannana Shine
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Curious. If you're getting 370 hp at the crank with stock head and 8.8:1 compression at around 5.8 psi, that may throw off my estimates for around 400 hp at around 10.0 psi with stock head, 11.0:1 compression, and water injection.
08-19-2012, 03:57 PM
#221
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10 psi with 11:1 compression is a recepe for disaster i.m.o. but if it holds it will make more then 400 hp ( for as long as it lives ) Hp also depends on the turbochager of choice of course ...
Last edited by Dimma; 08-19-2012 at 05:15 PM.
08-19-2012, 05:54 PM
#222
Bannana Shine
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With water injection (should provide something like 112 octane equivalent with 93 octane fuel) and sufficient intercooling, I don't see why our highly efficient 4-valve cylinder head shouldn't be able to run that kind of boost without knock. As for the overall forces involved, we've got a forged steel crankshaft and I'd be using aftermarket forged rods and pistons and likely replace the head bolts with ARP studs. What would be the weak point there?
08-19-2012, 06:10 PM
#223
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I doubt your water injection will provide enough stability to get the combusting process stable. Who knows this may work, but your taking a big risk i.m.h.o. If you don't have the forged pistons yet, why not have them produced on a 9:1 ratio and have 'save' power. With a modest Turbo you can make 500 Bhp without any knock or whatsoever.
I've ran a Turbo on somewhat higher boost with 9,5 : 1 ratio pistons ( we drive 98 octane here in Holland ) and the rods came out after a few laps on track, so maybe I'm over-carefull .....
I've ran a Turbo on somewhat higher boost with 9,5 : 1 ratio pistons ( we drive 98 octane here in Holland ) and the rods came out after a few laps on track, so maybe I'm over-carefull .....
08-20-2012, 04:05 AM
#224
Bannana Shine
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I doubt your water injection will provide enough stability to get the combusting process stable. Who knows this may work, but your taking a big risk i.m.h.o. If you don't have the forged pistons yet, why not have them produced on a 9:1 ratio and have 'save' power. With a modest Turbo you can make 500 Bhp without any knock or whatsoever.
Of course, I imagine that you're used to octane ratings quoted as RON, instead of AKI (my 93 is your 98).
I prefer to run the higher compression with lower boost, even at the expense of peak horsepower, rather than lower compression and higher boost. I prefer the faster throttle response, more powerful engine braking, and wider torque band that the higher compression would provide, and I have no particular desire for 500+ horsepower. The goal was 400, so anything over that is just gravy.
08-20-2012, 11:08 AM
#225
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I've never been in the area of high compression and low boost, so I wouldn't know what octane rating you would need. If I wanted fast(er) throttle response I would choose one size smaller Turbo then usual and a 9:1 CR. I have a car here with a very small Turbo ( Gt 2056 ) on a 1.9 liter engine which provides pressure and loads of Torque from 1200 rpm on. That would be my path of choice.
400 Bhp you'll get with 0,5 bar ( 7 psi ) boost. With your luck that our engines don't really have the 11.0:1 CR Porsche claims ( i messured mine ( 3 engines ) on 10.2 - 10.4 ) you may get lucky and keep the engine in one piece. To my knowledge 7psi is the maximum pressure to run engines with standard compression ...
400 Bhp you'll get with 0,5 bar ( 7 psi ) boost. With your luck that our engines don't really have the 11.0:1 CR Porsche claims ( i messured mine ( 3 engines ) on 10.2 - 10.4 ) you may get lucky and keep the engine in one piece. To my knowledge 7psi is the maximum pressure to run engines with standard compression ...