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Hello fellow Rennlist. I am new here. Been around BMWs for a long time. Started out with two E36s (‘93 325is then ‘95 M3), one ‘05 46 330i(zhp), one ‘11 E90 M3, now ‘16 F15X5 and ‘98 E36 M3. in addition, I owned bunch of VWs.
Let me say this that many of you guys retain a plethora of information in regards to 964 and 993 and I am glad that you don’t mind sharing. To me you are saving people like us money and headaches. So thank you all!
I have been reading lots of comments and opening links of 964s that are being sold on the market. It is interesting how scammers and even normal individuals want to unload their junk and pass it onto somebody else.
I may not be mechanically inclined when it comes to 911 Porsche, but been watching videos here and there.
So this why I am following this thread. A dream of owning a Porsche and specifically a 911 964 started out back in 1990. The car took my breath. Now that God has blessed me with a good career I am open to a possibility of owning one but it is still a toss between a 964 or an E30 M3. As we all know, no older classic cars are without its own set of plagues.
So, I will keep reading this thread on a daily basis and hope to learn some valuable lessons.
What are your thoughts on the Japanese cars as it pertains to overall value? There's a Murano Green 91 C2 in with 77k miles and it looks really clean. Just not sure how to gauge the value of a ROW car.
i understand the desire for 'original' cars, no repaint, all items still there just as the car left the factory assembly line - i guess with the values of these cars so high now, the 'collector' or 'connoisseur' mentality creeps in, and understandably so, but imho, this thinking is faulty for several important reasons:
1. these cars are now pushing 30 years old, even if they have been used sparingly over the years, they have been out there, in the elements, in garages, in repair shops so so many times. the paint on the impact areas cannot be very good, even if not peppered with road rash, the paint often gets dry and flakes/chips easily
2. as has been mentioned before, 964's unlike 993's, saw a period where they were NOT valued -- they were worth $10-15-20k at one point, no one wanted them. Many folks who owned them did not treat them like the treasures we think of them today. However, to do proper and quality repairs and maintenance on 964's was still not inexpensive... thus many were neglected, fixed on the cheap, swap this, swap that, band aids and chewing gum and baling wire to hold them together. You don't see hardly any 993's like this since they were NEVER $15,000 cars.
3. the lovely thing about the 911's through most of their history IS that many mechanical and cosmetic parts were interchangeable
4. factory stock 964's were, by today's standards, neither fast or good handling cars... suspensions were floaty, small wheels and 16 in rubber made the steering vague, engine was nice but exhaust note was too quiet, almost non existent... thus any enthusiast/driver/owner would start to mod these cars and NOT leave them bone stock, esp. as the years went by and the values became low
so given all this, it seems to me the key is to understand that 90% these cars changing hands WILL have needs -- very very few are bubble wrapped bone stock. mods are not a bad thing, if done and chosen smartly. And to look at the car and the seller to see if there is care and knowledge and attentiveness to detail.
what matters most is what condition is the car in TODAY, and what has been done in terms of care and feeding, and do you feel you are getting the straight scoop from the seller... of course, in today's hot market, most cars are junky and they are coming out of the wood work... what is happening is completely predictable and to be expected
What are your thoughts on the Japanese cars as it pertains to overall value? There's a Murano Green 91 C2 in with 77k miles and it looks really clean. Just not sure how to gauge the value of a ROW car.
I presume it’s this one currently offered by Abreu Motors... that’s a unique color and for sure an independent PPI is what’s recommended so you can assess condition etc. ROW can get tricky and a thorough due diligence is even more important. Anyway I am guesstimating that is not going to be priced in the 50-60s price range due to mileage, rwd, and rare color alone.
I presume it’s this one currently offered by Abreu Motors... that’s a unique color and for sure an independent PPI is what’s recommended so you can assess condition etc. ROW can get tricky and a thorough due diligence is even more important. Anyway I am guesstimating that is not going to be priced in the 50-60s price range due to mileage, rwd, and rare color alone.
Yeah... it looks like oslo blue in non-edited photos. Never seen it before. Interior is super clean. He's told me about a few issues and asking more than 60s
Yeah... it looks like oslo blue in non-edited photos. Never seen it before. Interior is super clean. He's told me about a few issues and asking more than 60s
Yeah... it looks like oslo blue in non-edited photos. Never seen it before. Interior is super clean. He's told me about a few issues and asking more than 60s
Ive only seen one other in this color. Great looking car. Hard to read much into those photos, there is so much color blending, so much filtering, shading and generally doctoring of the photos you can't possibly get any real sense of the car.
Agree with golfnuntintib. I purposefully looked for a track/street car because I wanted to drive it on track. However, this had several benefits I hadn’t thought of.
1) it already had several mods everyone recommends to make these cars better. So full of RS/Cup parts, it’s basically a clone.
2) it was discounted because track car, and i probably could have knocked a little more off, but I am not a shrewd negotiator.
3) it was maintained very well, because most people who take the track seriously do not want a dodgy car on track. Engine and gearbox rebuilt 8k miles ago. Everything works.
4) pro and con is it has some rock chips, a shotgun peppered windshield, and some small scratches. It was also partially resprayed after a track incident and they didn’t do a very good job, though a wet sand might fix most of it. However, this also means I can drive it all the time and not worry about it.
Only downside is the color. I hate silver cars, yet all three of my cars are a form of silver because condition is much more important than color. Plus I can pretend the color is light blue and be driving the car I’ve always wanted rather than sitting on the sidelines and turning down good cars because of color. Instead of waiting for the “perfect” car, I’ve driven 4K miles in the last 6 months and done two track weekends with a big smile on my face.
i understand the desire for 'original' cars, no repaint, all items still there just as the car left the factory assembly line - i guess with the values of these cars so high now, the 'collector' or 'connoisseur' mentality creeps in, and understandably so, but imho, this thinking is faulty for several important reasons:
1. these cars are now pushing 30 years old, even if they have been used sparingly over the years, they have been out there, in the elements, in garages, in repair shops so so many times. the paint on the impact areas cannot be very good, even if not peppered with road rash, the paint often gets dry and flakes/chips easily
2. as has been mentioned before, 964's unlike 993's, saw a period where they were NOT valued -- they were worth $10-15-20k at one point, no one wanted them. Many folks who owned them did not treat them like the treasures we think of them today. However, to do proper and quality repairs and maintenance on 964's was still not inexpensive... thus many were neglected, fixed on the cheap, swap this, swap that, band aids and chewing gum and baling wire to hold them together. You don't see hardly any 993's like this since they were NEVER $15,000 cars.
3. the lovely thing about the 911's through most of their history IS that many mechanical and cosmetic parts were interchangeable
4. factory stock 964's were, by today's standards, neither fast or good handling cars... suspensions were floaty, small wheels and 16 in rubber made the steering vague, engine was nice but exhaust note was too quiet, almost non existent... thus any enthusiast/driver/owner would start to mod these cars and NOT leave them bone stock, esp. as the years went by and the values became low
so given all this, it seems to me the key is to understand that 90% these cars changing hands WILL have needs -- very very few are bubble wrapped bone stock. mods are not a bad thing, if done and chosen smartly. And to look at the car and the seller to see if there is care and knowledge and attentiveness to detail.
what matters most is what condition is the car in TODAY, and what has been done in terms of care and feeding, and do you feel you are getting the straight scoop from the seller... of course, in today's hot market, most cars are junky and they are coming out of the wood work... what is happening is completely predictable and to be expected
Really well put. Agree %100. I am really enjoying the move in the super collectibles, to leave the cars alone and let the patina out. I saw a beat to **** MB 300 SL Gullwing. I mean covered in dirt, at the Petersen, fantastic time capsule.
In the meantime the bozos fawning over the ROW car on BAT with the overspray poking through the undercarriage is nauseating. Ferry Porsche said rock chips were a fact of Porsche life, can we put away the paint meters yet?
You saw what that rat rod with the Martini livery and the spray on bed liner interior did on bat why wouldn't you expect the same crew to go nuts over other cars with no regard for the condition?
Abrue motors aren't they the ones selling the tahoe blue 964 now that was at RMC and they don't mention anything about its mangled rear end? it looks like a good shop but their pics are always too enhanced and modified
Abrue motors aren't they the ones selling the tahoe blue 964 now that was at RMC and they don't mention anything about its mangled rear end? it looks like a good shop but their pics are always too enhanced and modified
I am not speaking of any car in particular, but I can tell you (that I believe) that Fabie at Abreu is a stand-up guy and I am highly confident that he would tell you anything he knows about whatever car you inquire about. He also probably sells more 964s than anyone else in the country.
Interesting. That black outlaw is a pretty cool concept and then a quick zoom in on the hood and the bad fitment gives me second thoughts. Still looks pretty mean from 30 feet away.
03-03-2019, 01:22 PM
