Great AMERICAN 964s for sale
03-02-2019, 08:44 AM
#5131
Rennlist Member
Another full respray with a recently cleaned and rather tattered underside. An 89 so look for the vin stickers. LSD LOL as said and the Martime not Maritime blue is a joke at that price.
03-02-2019, 08:45 AM
#5132
Rennlist Member
I have been on Rennlist since the beginning. I feel the information you guys share is priceless. I am amazed at the other Porschefiles that have never heard of the Rennlist. If you believe in the phrase "A fool and his money are soon parted", then you have to do the research. Research the car, research the seller. I for one, love the information I have been able to obtained for other members over the years.
03-02-2019, 09:28 AM
#5133
Instructor
I have been on Rennlist since the beginning. I feel the information you guys share is priceless. I am amazed at the other Porschefiles that have never heard of the Rennlist. If you believe in the phrase "A fool and his money are soon parted", then you have to do the research. Research the car, research the seller. I for one, love the information I have been able to obtained for other members over the years.
03-02-2019, 10:14 AM
#5134
Rennlist Member
We all know that the car wouldn't be optioned with limited slip since it was Carrera 4, but what person would not check the option codes before they bought the car? Isn't the option code for Limited Slip
220 LSD Limited Slip Differential
Sadly, these guys have a 100% positive rating on Ebay.
03-02-2019, 01:38 PM
#5135
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I'm also bitter with you Dtronics. When I was recently searching for a car, I was going through the same thing with dealers. Or every private sale car was instantly worth +60K, and I knew I would be the lucky new owner that would need to pump in 10k to get the car back up to a good standard. I started looking at 997s... Hate all this for the true enthusiast.
Fortunately he and I connected and he put me at the front of the line which is the opposite of most other inquiries. I was even more fortunate that the seller knew the car still had some needs like a new top, tires, suspension etc and had priced it accordingly. So in the end I scored with a car that was unmolested, in great shape and needed $10k to make it perfect
.
Last edited by Marine Blue; 03-02-2019 at 07:16 PM.
03-03-2019, 10:23 AM
#5138
Rennlist Member
We all know that the car wouldn't be optioned with limited slip since it was Carrera 4, but what person would not check the option codes before they bought the car? Isn't the option code for Limited Slip
220 LSD Limited Slip Differential
Sadly, these guys have a 100% positive rating on Ebay.
03-03-2019, 10:41 AM
#5139
Rennlist Member
Unfortunately, many options on the older cars are exchangeable. I have been guilty of added full power seats to a 993 that didn't have the option, as well as adding aero kits, wheels etc. The option code sticker becomes less effective at that point. But in my case, I always added something of greater value, kept the old item and informed the buyer.
Another item that people miss is mileage. On the the older 911 (964s / 993s) it is simple to disconnect or replace the speedo. You can continue to drive the car, the newer ones are electronic. When you are ready to sell it or it needs to be serviced, they can simply place the original speedo back into the hole. You and I both have seen low mileage cars that look like high mileage cars. You don't even have to roll back the miles, since the miles are never recorded.
The carfax, service records or option stickers can not detect a dishonest seller.
Another item that people miss is mileage. On the the older 911 (964s / 993s) it is simple to disconnect or replace the speedo. You can continue to drive the car, the newer ones are electronic. When you are ready to sell it or it needs to be serviced, they can simply place the original speedo back into the hole. You and I both have seen low mileage cars that look like high mileage cars. You don't even have to roll back the miles, since the miles are never recorded.
The carfax, service records or option stickers can not detect a dishonest seller.
03-03-2019, 11:11 AM
#5140
Rennlist Member
Unfortunately, many options on the older cars are exchangeable. I have been guilty of added full power seats to a 993 that didn't have the option, as well as adding aero kits, wheels etc. The option code sticker becomes less effective at that point. But in my case, I always added something of greater value, kept the old item and informed the buyer.
Another item that people miss is mileage. On the the older 911 (964s / 993s) it is simple to disconnect or replace the speedo. You can continue to drive the car, the newer ones are electronic. When you are ready to sell it or it needs to be serviced, they can simply place the original speedo back into the hole. You and I both have seen low mileage cars that look like high mileage cars. You don't even have to roll back the miles, since the miles are never recorded.
The carfax, service records or option stickers can not detect a dishonest seller.
Another item that people miss is mileage. On the the older 911 (964s / 993s) it is simple to disconnect or replace the speedo. You can continue to drive the car, the newer ones are electronic. When you are ready to sell it or it needs to be serviced, they can simply place the original speedo back into the hole. You and I both have seen low mileage cars that look like high mileage cars. You don't even have to roll back the miles, since the miles are never recorded.
The carfax, service records or option stickers can not detect a dishonest seller.
Although upgrades usually aren't a bad thing for your average driver and if you were doing it I would be happy to pay extra.
03-03-2019, 11:46 AM
#5141
Rennlist Member
. My favorite was a 91 targa being sold by the original owner that read 40k on the odo and showed like 140k miles. I found a switch under the dash I did not mention to the seller. When I took it for a test drive I threw the switch and the speedo stopped working. Imagine that. LOL.
03-03-2019, 12:18 PM
#5142
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Unfortunately, many options on the older cars are exchangeable. I have been guilty of added full power seats to a 993 that didn't have the option, as well as adding aero kits, wheels etc. The option code sticker becomes less effective at that point. But in my case, I always added something of greater value, kept the old item and informed the buyer.
Another item that people miss is mileage. On the the older 911 (964s / 993s) it is simple to disconnect or replace the speedo. You can continue to drive the car, the newer ones are electronic. When you are ready to sell it or it needs to be serviced, they can simply place the original speedo back into the hole. You and I both have seen low mileage cars that look like high mileage cars. You don't even have to roll back the miles, since the miles are never recorded.
The carfax, service records or option stickers can not detect a dishonest seller.
Another item that people miss is mileage. On the the older 911 (964s / 993s) it is simple to disconnect or replace the speedo. You can continue to drive the car, the newer ones are electronic. When you are ready to sell it or it needs to be serviced, they can simply place the original speedo back into the hole. You and I both have seen low mileage cars that look like high mileage cars. You don't even have to roll back the miles, since the miles are never recorded.
The carfax, service records or option stickers can not detect a dishonest seller.
As far as mileage goes, based upon many of the cars I have seen for sale I'm convinced that there's a very large number of them that have inaccurate mileage. This not only applies to Porsche but also to Mercedes and even more to Ferrari's. It's in epidemic in the collector car world and it's very unfortunate. My first car as a teenager had a swapped odometer and it wasn't long after I purchased the car that odd things started wearing out that normally wouldn't wear out at the lower miles shown on the odometer. I learned the hard way early on that there's lots of dishonesty in the used car market.
I would say 40% of the air-cooled cars I look at have had the speedo removed, swapped out or overridden at one point. My favorite was a 91 targa being sold by the original owner that read 40k on the odo and showed like 140k miles. I found a switch under the dash I did not mention to the seller. When I took it for a test drive I threw the switch and the speedo stopped working. Imagine that. LOL
03-03-2019, 12:54 PM
#5143
Rennlist Member
I am sure that we have a bunch of attorneys on the Rennlist that could give us an indication of what would/could happen to the seller.
03-03-2019, 01:04 PM
#5144
Rennlist Member
Changing seats, exhaust and other items is pretty common on these cars and it's not really a big deal when tastefully done. But unlike you, many sellers and most dealers won't disclose this and they pass it off as stock.
As far as mileage goes, based upon many of the cars I have seen for sale I'm convinced that there's a very large number of them that have inaccurate mileage. This not only applies to Porsche but also to Mercedes and even more to Ferrari's. It's in epidemic in the collector car world and it's very unfortunate. My first car as a teenager had a swapped odometer and it wasn't long after I purchased the car that odd things started wearing out that normally wouldn't wear out at the lower miles shown on the odometer. I learned the hard way early on that there's lots of dishonesty in the used car market.
Agreed on the 40% figure, and that's across the board for many brands as noted above. As far as the switch, that's the first I have heard of something that blatant. Technically the guy could have been arrested for fraud couldn't he?
As far as mileage goes, based upon many of the cars I have seen for sale I'm convinced that there's a very large number of them that have inaccurate mileage. This not only applies to Porsche but also to Mercedes and even more to Ferrari's. It's in epidemic in the collector car world and it's very unfortunate. My first car as a teenager had a swapped odometer and it wasn't long after I purchased the car that odd things started wearing out that normally wouldn't wear out at the lower miles shown on the odometer. I learned the hard way early on that there's lots of dishonesty in the used car market.
Agreed on the 40% figure, and that's across the board for many brands as noted above. As far as the switch, that's the first I have heard of something that blatant. Technically the guy could have been arrested for fraud couldn't he?
We saw a lot of cars with incorrect odo readings and undisclosed known damage during the 80's grey market. It is an unfortunate side effect of increasing values and limited supply.
03-03-2019, 01:18 PM
#5145
Rennlist Member
I am not an attorney, but I think he could claim that he didn't know, and blame it on the boutique shop. But, if it had been pursued, a new title would have to be issued that noted a mileage discrepancy. If Cobalt would have bought and figured it out, then Cobalt could pursed financial damages on the purchase. In any event, it would be a civil case.
I am sure that we have a bunch of attorneys on the Rennlist that could give us an indication of what would/could happen to the seller.
I am sure that we have a bunch of attorneys on the Rennlist that could give us an indication of what would/could happen to the seller.
I'm at the point i would rather buy a car with needs and just rework everything to my personal tastes from the ground up. I always wanted a 3.8RS clone for the street. I went a bit to far with my track car but was focused on that at the time. Besides building a track car is cheap in comparison to a true clone. I may one day sell my C2 and or turbo and build something I don't have to worry about so much and enjoy these cars as I used to.