crying here... not a good phone call
05-24-2012, 08:32 PM
#49
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 985
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How long did the engine run on starter fluid? Starter fluid is very volatile and extended use will easily burn a hole in a piston, especially in a hi compression engine. If there is shrapnel in the cylinder, I wouldn't run the engine, let alone turn it over.
05-24-2012, 09:32 PM
#52
Race Director
that's the funny thing. To me, the engine felt good. that day we had been running all over backroads. I didn't overrev it, nor did it backfire during any drives. My son drove it home, but the only symptom was it just wouldn't start. Would kind of run on starting fluid sprayed into the air intake, but once that was gone the car died.
05-24-2012, 10:36 PM
#53
Hawk, this type of news is never welcomed, but the fact is that the $7K will be money well spent and six months from now you will be happy with your renewed car. I would much rather put $7K into a 964 that will always put a smile on my face than to have it disappear via depreciation on just about any other vehicle that I would choose to own.
05-24-2012, 10:38 PM
#54
I have been thinking about this issue this evening...
I wonder if there are two issues going on. Geoff, I might be all wet on this since my memory is horrid, but I do think I remember during one of the shots of starter fluid that there was a pretty strong backfire type episode. It was brief and quick after the gentleman with the 944 gave your 964 a pretty good shot of starter fluid... Do you remember that? Am I not remembering right...?
Could that have happened causing the mess in the cylinder that Fabson is seeing, but then you still have a fuel delivery issue as well?
I wonder if there are two issues going on. Geoff, I might be all wet on this since my memory is horrid, but I do think I remember during one of the shots of starter fluid that there was a pretty strong backfire type episode. It was brief and quick after the gentleman with the 944 gave your 964 a pretty good shot of starter fluid... Do you remember that? Am I not remembering right...?
Could that have happened causing the mess in the cylinder that Fabson is seeing, but then you still have a fuel delivery issue as well?
05-25-2012, 12:27 AM
#55
Super Duper Moderator
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Hawk, this type of news is never welcomed, but the fact is that the $7K will be money well spent and six months from now you will be happy with your renewed car. I would much rather put $7K into a 964 that will always put a smile on my face than to have it disappear via depreciation on just about any other vehicle that I would choose to own.
Sorry to hear, Hawk.
Marc
05-25-2012, 08:14 AM
#57
Hawk,
in my former life I rebuilt aircraft engines. in my new life I have rebuilt about 10 porsche engines. With my experience I am not buying this diagnosis. first the leak down indicates that engine is cold and will not show accurate readings because of the lack of oil on the rings which acts as a lubricant and seal at the same time.
I would suggest let them figure out why it would not start first. if you truly have to rebuild the engine then you may want to do this your self or if you like I could help you. We could work something out. I do have space here for the engine including an engine stand . I have a bunch of connections in the part business and you could learn about the engine as well. A top end is fairly straight forward the worst part is timing the cams which just takes careful thought and checking to set. other that pretty straight forward. I dont see why you would spend more then $2k in the whole process. the other thing I would suggest is supertec head studs not ARP but that is a personal prefference.
in my former life I rebuilt aircraft engines. in my new life I have rebuilt about 10 porsche engines. With my experience I am not buying this diagnosis. first the leak down indicates that engine is cold and will not show accurate readings because of the lack of oil on the rings which acts as a lubricant and seal at the same time.
I would suggest let them figure out why it would not start first. if you truly have to rebuild the engine then you may want to do this your self or if you like I could help you. We could work something out. I do have space here for the engine including an engine stand . I have a bunch of connections in the part business and you could learn about the engine as well. A top end is fairly straight forward the worst part is timing the cams which just takes careful thought and checking to set. other that pretty straight forward. I dont see why you would spend more then $2k in the whole process. the other thing I would suggest is supertec head studs not ARP but that is a personal prefference.
05-25-2012, 08:34 AM
#58
Hawk,
in my former life I rebuilt aircraft engines. in my new life I have rebuilt about 10 porsche engines. With my experience I am not buying this diagnosis. first the leak down indicates that engine is cold and will not show accurate readings because of the lack of oil on the rings which acts as a lubricant and seal at the same time.
I would suggest let them figure out why it would not start first. if you truly have to rebuild the engine then you may want to do this your self or if you like I could help you. We could work something out. I do have space here for the engine including an engine stand . I have a bunch of connections in the part business and you could learn about the engine as well. A top end is fairly straight forward the worst part is timing the cams which just takes careful thought and checking to set. other that pretty straight forward. I dont see why you would spend more then $2k in the whole process. the other thing I would suggest is supertec head studs not ARP but that is a personal prefference.
in my former life I rebuilt aircraft engines. in my new life I have rebuilt about 10 porsche engines. With my experience I am not buying this diagnosis. first the leak down indicates that engine is cold and will not show accurate readings because of the lack of oil on the rings which acts as a lubricant and seal at the same time.
I would suggest let them figure out why it would not start first. if you truly have to rebuild the engine then you may want to do this your self or if you like I could help you. We could work something out. I do have space here for the engine including an engine stand . I have a bunch of connections in the part business and you could learn about the engine as well. A top end is fairly straight forward the worst part is timing the cams which just takes careful thought and checking to set. other that pretty straight forward. I dont see why you would spend more then $2k in the whole process. the other thing I would suggest is supertec head studs not ARP but that is a personal prefference.
05-25-2012, 08:41 AM
#59
Burning Brakes
Hawk, get your car back and get it running. It sounds like you have a fuel issue if it ran on starter fluid (which I would not much more of). That engine should run on 5 cylinders. I agree with the previous poster that it could just be stuck rings or a stuck valve. There has to be some guys on here that can help you get it running.
Did you start it at all when it was stored?
Did you start it at all when it was stored?
05-25-2012, 10:12 AM
#60
Race Car
Thread Starter
The car was never really stored... I llive in the upper midwest, so it's put to bed for a few months during the winter. This started last year where it would take several cranks to get the car to start, but once it did, it ran perfectly. I could hear a bit of valve tick, but was going to do a valve job over the winter. Then, during our fall club event- a half day of driving, the car just refused to start up again. We tinkered for 1/2 hr, trying everything from push starting to starter fluid sprayed into the air intake. Jay's right, we did have one such backfire. I'm not sure if that caused anything disastrous or not.
We quit trying, I got a ride home, and took a trailer back up to bring the car home. My son insisted I try again, even though I was sure the battery should be flat. We had exhausted my battery, and a jump start battery the location had on site so I figured we had no juice. Got in, turned the key, and the f'er started right up. Ran well, no odd idle like only running on 5 cylinders. Idle was consistent with what I've had for 6 yrs of owning the car...
So the car was driven home. My son drove it, and I know he didn't get excessive with it. He was scared $hitless to drive it and have something happen. Got home with no issues. Turned the key off, and any future attempts gave me the exact same results.... no start.
What I've done- Swapped out fuel pump, swapped out coils, new battery, new DME relays- 2 spares, jumper the DME relay. The car had new plugs, distributor cap and rotors 2 yrs ago. Plug wires are old- no idea how old. Did not see any stray electrical charges with misting the engine during any attempt to start. When I metered the coils, I got zero volts.
We quit trying, I got a ride home, and took a trailer back up to bring the car home. My son insisted I try again, even though I was sure the battery should be flat. We had exhausted my battery, and a jump start battery the location had on site so I figured we had no juice. Got in, turned the key, and the f'er started right up. Ran well, no odd idle like only running on 5 cylinders. Idle was consistent with what I've had for 6 yrs of owning the car...
So the car was driven home. My son drove it, and I know he didn't get excessive with it. He was scared $hitless to drive it and have something happen. Got home with no issues. Turned the key off, and any future attempts gave me the exact same results.... no start.
What I've done- Swapped out fuel pump, swapped out coils, new battery, new DME relays- 2 spares, jumper the DME relay. The car had new plugs, distributor cap and rotors 2 yrs ago. Plug wires are old- no idea how old. Did not see any stray electrical charges with misting the engine during any attempt to start. When I metered the coils, I got zero volts.