s65e90

Makes more sense.

RapidGT

The results for the 964’s at Pebble Beach. They include the buyers premium. Only one of these 10 failed to sell during the auction. Although lots of cars at these auctions underperformed.

‘92 Carrera Cup USA (GP White/Black showing 4,822 miles): $246,200
https://www.goodingco.com/lot/1992-p...rrera-cup-usa/

‘92 Carrera RS (Black/Black showing 49,340 km (30,658 miles)): $240,800
https://www.goodingco.com/lot/1992-p...carrera-rs-1b/

‘93 Carrera RSR (Guards Red showing 39 km (25 miles)): $1,325,000
https://rmsothebys.com/auctions/mo24...arrera-rsr-38/

‘93 Carrera RSR (GP White showing 6,809 km (4,230 miles)): No sale asking $1,550,000
https://www.goodingco.com/lot/1993-p...rera-rsr-38-1/

‘93 Turbo S Lightweight (GP White/Black showing 130 km (81 miles)): $923,500
https://rmsothebys.com/auctions/mo24...s-lightweight/

‘93 Turbo 3.6 (Cobalt Blue/Black showing 39,645 km (24,634 miles)): $621,000
https://www.goodingco.com/lot/1993-p...-964-turbo-36/

‘94 Turbo 3.6 (GP White/Black showing 35,355 miles): $456,000
https://www.goodingco.com/lot/1994-p...64-turbo-36-1/

‘94 Speedster (Polar Silver/Black showing 12,654 miles): $229,600
https://www.broadarrowauctions.com/v...-911-speedster

‘94 Speedster (Guards Red/Black showing 43,929 miles): $142,800
https://www.broadarrowauctions.com/v...-911-speedster

‘94 Carrera 2 Cabriolet (Black/Black showing 30,162 miles): $100,800
https://www.broadarrowauctions.com/v...ra-2-cabriolet

Paolo1

Did I miss something or was that black RS a steal?

928 GT R

So was the red 94 Speedster IMO...

RapidGT

A lot of the Gooding cars came below estimate. The USA Cup and RS were both steals. Even the Turbo 3.6’s came below estimate despite these cars being hot. The red speedster at Broad Arrow did indeed come in very low.

cobalt

Considering we are so close to an election with the abysmal state of the economy and a market that has softened these past few months, I think some of these did quite well. The cab seemed to do the best considering. It would seem the lower the miles the further from estimated selling price they achieved. So are collectors loosing interest in delivery mile cars? I believe the Cobalt blue turbo all in at $621k is one of the highest prices paid to date for a relatively stock 3.6T. Although IMO it is wort every penny. I always said the color sells.

I'm not so sure some of these were bargains. There are several red over red Speedsters for sale currently. The red wheels are always polarizing and the car has had paintwork. At least fix the smile before trying to achieve top dollar. Rear bumper has been painted and damaged again since. Incorrect center caps, interesting stuff happening around the door striker plates and more to consider.

s65e90

Prices from all the auction houses was down below estimates, but still way above what one would consider normal pricing for these cars IMO. We're still talking big $$$ here.

jeff33702

It's possible - I've mentioned before that there seems to be 2 bubbles. 1 for low-mile cars that are destined for non-driving collections and another for interesting, well-sorted cars with little regard to the miles - cars that can be enjoyed guilt-free.

darylbowden

Would agree the auctions were very soft and that tends to trigger softness in the rest of the market post-car week in past years. Recent BAT and Pcar sales have been full of RNMs as well.

Even though 964s are the rarest production of any generation, it's insane to think that average coupes would stay at $120k when they were just $60k a few years back. The days of treating all vintage cars like an asset class is probably behind us for the time being. Since this is a forum full of drivers, this should be a welcome respite. My only hope is that this also forces a decline in part prices and labor prices as people are less willing to spend insane money to keep these things on the road. There is no world in which Indy labor should be $250/hr but that's where we are!

The other thing to realize is 964s are in that 30 year window (30 years from new), which is always when cars "pop" the most. This is as high (relative to the general market) as they are likely to get. It happens with every car, some have longer windows, some shorter, but we're in the thick of it now. Same reason we see MkIV Supras and NSXs going for big money. In another 10-15 years, we're likely to see a big decline like the 356 and American Muscle car guys are living through as we all start to get too old to maintain and love these cars and our kids don't care about them at the same rate we do.

cobalt

Maybe but I don't believe in bubbles for these anymore. The uber rare cars still fetched strong money. We are thinking under 7 figures is large money but the majority of rare cars a few years ago that were just 7 digits are now seeing high 7 digits and low 8 digit figures. I suspect this is a lull and we will see another increase in a year from now. The more we produce crappy EV's that are hard sells and have far too many issues I think we will see more of these increase in value. The RS's were hot for a while but we are now seeing a glut of these being imported and those interested already have. Over 6 figures for the cab was surprising to me.

I don't think these and the muscle car market can be considered similar markets. How many do you seeing chopped up to make EV's or back dates and they made enough for a million restomods. The 30 year market has been long over for the vintage Ferraris and most exotics, yet they continue to bring strong money. Every day I see a new way to butcher the 964 with a slew of EV's being made. They should be drawn and quartered for doing so. I see far too much interest from 20 somethings for these vintage Porsche's even more so than the Supras and other Japanese cars or the modern hypercars Very different mindset. I suspect these will continue to slowly rise again come next year although the dollar isn't worth much and will continue to be worth less if we follow the path we are on. I suspect labor rates may not be our biggest concern. Although at some of the selling prices clearly some of these are inflation proof. IMO they set estimated prices exceedingly high in hopes to get people bidding. It looks like it worked to a degree. $456k for a plain Jane low optioned 3.6T is still crazy money IMO. $100k for a cab is all the money and some others. The biggest disappointment was the cup car but I think the world hasn't figured them out yet.

jeff33702

Bubble wasn't the correct word - just meant that delivery cars do have that one negative of reluctancy to drive and that can impact their perceived value to some...and the good cars with some miles can benefit from a buyer who sees value in drivable cars.

cobalt

There is a seat for everyone. I know some serious collectors with the best of the best cars that don't drive and are chauffeured around 95% of the time. So it all depends on who is buying. I have been trying to sell my cayman s. Hopefully this next buyer will pull the trigger. However I am asked some seriously inane questions and people walk for the strangest reasons. All excited at first but eventually ask questions they don't know the correct answer to and decide to buy an inferior car. Meanwhile I insist on a PPI and they don't want to be bothered? After helping people buy these cars for nearly 2 decades, I am still amazed by what people consider important which has changed immensely over the years. Perception is so subjective.🤪

928 GT R

And perception becomes reality until it is altered again...

You sir have more experience than most!

RapidGT

@cobalt you are correct in that the cobalt blue car at Gooding was a record for a 3.6 at public sale. Besides of course the actual Bad Boys car that sold at Mecum for $1.43 million. Don’t really count that one as it’s an outlier for obvious reasons.

You’re probably correct in that the dip in the stock market a couple weeks ago, the state of the economy and the uncertainty of it due to election season probably hampered the results of the PB auctions. Wait to see what happens next year at Scottsdale, Amelia, and Miami.

cobalt

As they say Tomorrow never knows. I think sale prices in general were strong considering. If we were seeing a deflation in these I think sale prices in general would have been lower. I suspect the Bad boys car would have realized a much higher sale price if it was there this past week. I agree lets see what tomorrow brings but I think these cars have hit iconic status and will follow suit with some of the other classics. Like gold the buy in is high and the future isn't guaranteed but every time you put off buying thinking it will drop further the price goes up again. I wish I bought more krugerrands when they were $300 ea. LOL