jeff33702

I get it. Agreed, if you want to drive it, this is not the car. I think it's meant to live the life you mentioned - and for that, the price is the price.

Matt Cooke

Hi guys, is this a place I can ask for an opinion of price before I sell my car? Thanks so much.

RapidGT

A ‘73 RS for $500k or less (if you can even find one) would be a non-numbers matching car with a rough history. A good numbers matching car you are looking at around $700k.

An NGT Clubsport is not a great street car. Not practical, comfortable, or safe. It’s really only at home on a track. Next owner of the car at Zweck will likely not use it on the street or track. Just as garage art to maybe speculate on. The sweet spot for street driving IMO is the basic car even though it is the most produced variant by a longways. A USA Cup car in street trim is also another great choice as it is basically identical to a RoW RS, but I’m a bit biased . The Touring IMO has too many creature comforts (sound deadening, dual-mass flywheel, undercoating, etc.) added back in to where it’s getting a bit away from what an RS should be. Also you were able to add back power steering, radio, A/C, and a sunroof.

Remember someone a couple years ago paid top dollar for this other Rubystone Clubsport that GRP had. They were asking $625k and it was sold in about a week. Don’t know the exact figure, but couldn’t have been super far off their ask. Thought it was crazy a couple years ago and still is. I think for $250k-$300k the Clubsport would be on the rougher side.

https://www.grahamrahalperformance.c...91410?ref=list

cobalt

We all have our preferences. I nearly purchased a 73 RS back in the 80's but picked up an incredible 74 RS clone instead. The RS clone was a superior car in every respect to the 73. I would never buy any car with a cage for street use an the N/GT is just too raw for anything but track so these cars are all collector vehicle's at this point or driven occasionally to a C&C. But hands down despite the heft of the 964 it is IMO the best air cooled platform made. An RS either 73 or 964 are incredible cars and offer similar but different experiences which we all know makes the conversation subjective. The 964 still retains the looks and feel of a 911 without becoming too GT and has safety eq that any G-body or earlier is lacking not to mention brakes. But I suspect either would satisfy most any of us. Undoubtedly the average buyer of a car like the rubystone N/GT at that price, usually will be adding it to their collection including a 73 RS or other expensive cars.

I have seen so many Japanese imports that have not just one but multiple layers of paint. Best is many are sold as original or accident free which usually isn't the case. Nice cars but as my friend who used to work in the industry in Japan said nearly every car that leaves Japan gets a Haircut. I think we all understand that.

I agree sticker placement is tough and I see cars with some stickers original and other without them and clearly never applied. Especially the knock sensor sticker and gold voltage sticker which varies more than any if they exist. However if the .02 suffix didn't come out until the following year either this is a later build or something doesn't add up. I am hoping the potential buyer will have the smarts to look the car over and have an expert opine on its originality for those dollars.

darylbowden

Fair enough. I was throwing away the crazy "covid" sales of '22 but that's fair. I guess my view was it's low mileage, but it's not insanely low mileage. It's still done 10k miles, it's not like it has delivery miles or sub-1k miles kinda thing. It has probably pretty similar wear and tear to an example that has 20k miles. To me, the collectors I would think either want the delivery miles/sub-1k examples (and will pay even more for them) or the people who intend to drive them want the ones with 20k+ on them. This one is kinda in a no man's land IMO.

Then again, I should really learn to stop thinking about these cars as cars, because clearly someone will come along and prove to me with their checkbook that they are indeed an asset class these days.

cobalt

I think you answered yourself. After nearly a decade of helping people buy and sell these cars I learned to think differently as logic has gone out the window. Most purchases are emotional. Finding sub 10k mile cars isn't as easy at it used to be and I have seen people search for all original paint low mile cars, pay up for them, only end up tracking them and having them repainted.

Heck someone paid over $14k for an RSA wing no deck lid the other day and you can still get them for Porsche for a fraction of that.

forbiddenbeat

+1 to a lot of these purchases being emotional. Chatting at the local cars and coffee, several folks have sold older cars locally (privately) for well above what everyone would argue is the "market value". Given the scarcity of the 964, when one pops up that strikes an emotional chord, people with the means will pay what they need to in order to get it.

cobalt

I was speaking with a friend the other day who went over to Germany and had a lengthy conversation with a PAG exec that claimed he could source any classic he wanted but the 964. He claimed everyone wants a 964 and they are impossible to find.

Greg Wolfe

Wow, so crazy hear, but we all kind of get that sense. They are difficult to find. It really is the Goldilocks for so many people. If you love the classic look, it has it. If you love the analog feel with some creature comforts, it has it. If you love air cooled, it has it.

Mr. Wolfe

RapidGT

964’s went through a long phase of being cheap used cars. Could get a late C2 manual coupe for less than $20k 15 years ago. As a result some owners didn’t take proper care of their cars because they saw it as a cheap almost disposable asset. When the market picked up and everyone wanted one there were very few good ones left in existence. Some would try to sell off their mediocre examples as pristine cars to unsuspecting buyers. Why it is important to do your homework or get help from an expert. A really good 964 is something to hang onto as comparable replacements are hard to come by and with companies like Singer buying up some of the good remaining examples the number of them is dwindling.

Turbo Jonny

Yes 15 years ago

Just need a time machine

darylbowden

I think that's the natural curve of all 911s (and Porsches in general really). 964s are obviously very rare because of the financial world when they were launched (similar to the 997.2 cars and some of the early 70s cars as well). I certainly agree that a good, original, one is hard to find. I also think we're gonna start seeing cars that aren't great and need work (mechanical, interior, bodywork, etc) that get repaired, restored, etc into great cars. Same thing that happened with the long hoods - for a while there were many which got forward-dated into G bodies or 964/993 clones but for the most part, those were eventually brought back to a more pure state. Same with former race cars, etc. With the values of these cars making that kind of investment at least somewhat worthwhile, I assume we'll see more of that happening on the 964s too because of the supply constraints.

I agree with the above statement around the 964 being the goldilocks air-cooled car, I think it's why most of us love them. The funny thing I see is that 993s (especially Turbos) still fetch similar or higher prices in many cases. I guess that's because they are the last air-cooled generation, but at least for me, I really don't like the way they drive in comparison. A 993TT loses all of the drama of the 964T with their twin turbo and AWD setups and yet people still adore them and pay huge money for them. To each their own I suppose...

RapidGT

People who don’t really know just assume the last of the air-cooled (the 993) and the top of the range (the Turbo) is the one to go for. Logic would say it is as the last is usually the most refined and the best. I think a 993 Turbo is a great choice for a first air-cooled Porsche. Not in terms of price point, but drivability and predictability. Also if you’re more accustomed to modern cars. Think you can do better though. Would take a 964 3.6 Turbo any day of the week over a 993 Turbo. 3.3 is a closer call. 993 Turbo in terms of pricing is between the 964 3.3 and 3.6 Turbo’s. Any of the different 964 Turbo “S” cars are more valuable than a 993 Turbo S.

RapidGT

Does anybody know anything about this place At Speed Motors? Have seen the stuff the owner Bob Miller has done with PCA. Bob left his card on my 964 Cup when it was a Rennsport and have wondered exactly what they do. They post some very interesting cars on their social media especially 964’s. Never see anything listed on their site for sale and the cars that are featured on their social media always seem to be spoken for or not for sale. Do they do sales, importation, or service? Noticed they get a fair amount from Thomas Josef Schmitz in Germany.

cobalt

It seems like an eternity ago. I wish I could pick up anyone of those for double those prices today. I was buying 964 with some needs for $10k back in 2015. I wish I bought more. They were worth more in parts than as a whole, and parts weren't big money. I sold an early engine needing a rebuild with 84k mile & 4 broken head studs for $3500. . Looking back I let so many parts go that today are worth more than an entire 964 back then.