Trader220

Ive owned both the RS America and the normal 964 coupe, as well as a Speedster. I also buy em and use em for a year or so and sell em. I look at pricing from all over the country every day on all forms of the 911. You wanna know what model has the most premium in them at this time? In my opinion the RS America is so over valued that i would like to short em in the market. You can make your own out of a regular c2 coupe and pocket the difference. Of course if you're a collector then its a different ball game. Back in 2000 i sold my RS America with 42k miles on it for 36 grand it would fetch that easily now. I moved into a 97 C2s and even though it was a great car i still missed the RS and the look of the 964. Prices across the board have been rocked and there are a lot of very good deals out there except in the RS Americas. My opinion, buy a 993, or even better buy a 964 and change it to suit your own taste and skill.

Cupcar#12

if you want specs on all 5 variations i just posted my RSA/C2/RST/RSB/AM Cup comparision charts @
<a href="http://www.lynchracing.com" target="_blank">www.lynchracing.com</a>
it's on the other stuff link at the bottom

IMHO i would buy an RSA over a C2 - a bit rarer and neater but then i like the lightweights
the wing does add a good bit of downforce to the car over the retractable spoiler (i have all three spoilers for different uses, PCA = RSA wing, One Lap/AutoX = 3.8 RSR, Stealth = retractable)
as always remove weight to add power - then add power (after improving the driver of course)

RSAErick

rlynch,
Thanks for the links.

I have heard whisperings that some of the early RS America's may have had the seam-welding (ala Cup car). Does anyone know if this is truth or fiction? And how does one know if their car has been seam-welded?

Thanks.
Erick

ltc

Erick,
Some early 93 RSA's were built from left over Cup tubs, although I have never been able to get a definitive number from anybody.

The common characteristics of these cars were:
Early production/VIN#....first lot built Jan-Jun 1992....297 cars in this lot.
Factory rolled fenders
A very distinct "orange peel" texture to the paint on the underside of the hood.

RSAErick

Lewis, thanks for the info:

297 RS America's is quite a few - more than 40% actually.

Now, pardon my ignorance, but what do factory rolled fenders look like? The underside of my hood has, what I would perceive to be, a very distinctive orange peel texture.

Are there any other ways to determine if seam-welding has been done? Where are the welds? Or for that matter, where are the seams???

Thanks.
Erick

ltc

Erick,
Again, no one is really sure how many were seam welded tubs. I have heard numbers of around the first 100.
From <a href="http://www.rsamerica.net/faqs/index.htm," target="_blank">http://www.rsamerica.net/faqs/index.htm,</a> the official # from Porsche was 701 total RSA's and here is the VIN range of the first batch, some # of which were seam welded tubs:
Jan/92 - Jun/92 PS418001 - 297 297

Rolled rear fenders are nothing new, as a matter of fact a very good body shop can roll fenders for a few hundred dollars and not have to repaint the fenders.

Basically, the outside of the fender comes down, bends 90deg, and once inside the wheel well, immediately bends/rolls up towards vertical, thus giving you increased clearance between a tire and the fender/body. You can't tell when looking at the outside, you can only tell by looking inside the wheel well or feeling the fender lip.
A normal fender will come down on the outside, bend 90 deg and pretty much stop inside the fender. Go check a normal street Porsche car and then compare it to your RSA. You should be able to tell very quickly if your fenders are rolled or not.

RSAErick

Fair enough on the rolled fenders.

But what seams gets welded? And where are they?

Cupcar#12

Seam welding is evedent once you pull up the carpeting (the workshop manual details the placement of the welds) i will have to look at my car to see if you can see any evidence of the welds in an easily asseble place - like under the floor matts.
Generally if a shell has a sunroof then it will not be seemwelded. not sure how many of the early RSA's were made with w/o this option. & 297 is double or triple the entire Cup car production (usually around a 100 cars/year on the high side if that)
if anything i think the early RSA's were produced from RS shells.
the american Cup cars for instance we simpily pulled of the normal production line and then converted (same as they do today btw) then finished at Werks One. the orange peel you are refering to is B/c the front hood is Aluminium and is very thin - with only a light coat of paint applied (with a lot of thinner) by hand. My car did show quite a bit of orange peel on the hood before i had it wet sanded. The paint is really thin.
On the rolled fender lips the edges which normally turn 90 degrees into the well are cut then folded
i can take pictures once i am in Va. with the car (Sunday the 27th)

ltc

I know it's not a Porsche (no flames please), but here is a link to see what rolled fenders are all about:
<a href="http://forced5.home.attbi.com/diy/fender-rolling/" target="_blank">http://forced5.home.attbi.com/diy/fender-rolling/</a>

As far as seams go, remember that your tub is made up of quite a few sheetmetal pieces. They are welded together, in this case with a continuous seam weld between all pieces. There are other types of assembly welds, common type is a spot weld every inch or so.

The advantage of a continuous seam weld is a much stiffer tub, a desirable thing for a track car.

I'm trying to find a pic of the various sheetmetal parts that make up a 911 tub. I think I have one at home somewhere.

Jim Michaels

Mine look similar to the shop-rolled front fender lips, except the rears came rolled all the way from the black plastic (or is it hard rubber?) strip at the front of the fender to about 3" before the black plastic strip at the back. Thus, the factory job rolled more of the fender arc than I usually see on DIY or shop rolled fender lips.

I never checked the seam welds. I don't think I could tell completely welded seams from multiple spot welds anyway. I also don't know how many of the early RSAs used left over Cup tubs. Mine is #146 and I've read one source say 190-something; however many it took to use up the remaining Cup tubs.

BTW, I've heard this RSA Cup tub story many times, but have never seen any official confirmation of it. The RSA registry website has many RSA FAQs, but nothing on the RSA Cup tub question (Keith had enough trouble getting the official number of RSAs built). I'm not rejecting the story, and how my car came even seems consistent with it, but until I see more convincing evidence, I'm regarding it as rumor that has a fair chance of being true. Whether or not it's true, it makes a good story.

A red blur..

Good question and I don't know the answer, but, I don't think there's ever been a posting by a RSA owner saying he regretted buying the car, there have been numerous previous owners that miss their RSA's.

I'd love a new sled (owned it 5 yrs), but it's the 'bird in the hand' situation. I know I've got a good car - if I sell it and get a new toy will I miss it? Why take the chance.

Overpriced? Probably. Finding a motivated seller is the problem.

M
93 RSA, 58k miles

JC in NY

This thread is incredible. The myth of the RSA lives despite the facts!

clubrcr

Fanatic:

I have a 1992 US Carrera Cup for sale. It is truely the lightweight version of the 964 ..Perfect track and serious enthusiast's car.

Trader220

The premium that the RSA's are getting now is a joke in my opinion. Not to mention that finding one with no track time is getting more difficult. Meanwhile the regular 964 coupes and 993 coupes are getting blasted price wise. Buy one of those and make your own RS. Then pocket the change. If I could short an RSA In the market place i would.

Trader220

Oh yea, by the way there is a local shop which has a good reputation for selling second hand Porsches who has a RSA On their lot. I was out for a drive this weekend and went and looked at it. It's extremely clean and has all the records. NO AC NO sunroof, H&R springs other then that its stock. The kicker is that the car is silver, there are only a handful of silver ones. It has 30k on it, he wants 40g's and i dont want to pay that price.