When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
PCA holds an annual "Open House" event sometime in October ( Columbia,MD) and hoping to drag Anthony to the event this year great cars, great food, and super nice staff. I will post the "One Mile Review" video when its ready. I will talk to Vu or Manny to maybe do an article in Pano about USCC and the existence of the new Registry.
Anthony I think that says a lot to the intrigue of these cars when you are surprised but what they are after going through one, after all these have been around since 1992. I think it's one the most misunderstood Porsche's of all time
I agree. I had the opportunity to play and work on an original unmolested factory 993 RSR 3.8 a year or so back. Another very rare car many will never see in their entire life. It was very intriguing going through all of the subtleties and parts that have been copied and we all see as aftermarket upgrades today but were actually a variation of factory parts. WIth all of its glory and uniqueness I appreciate the 964's more and the Cup car is very special. I always wondered why my friends were much faster in their 964 cup cars on track vs my modified C2. It is the sum of the parts.
Originally Posted by 2swoosh
PCA holds an annual "Open House" event sometime in October ( Columbia,MD) and hoping to drag Anthony to the event this year great cars, great food, and super nice staff. I will post the "One Mile Review" video when its ready. I will talk to Vu or Manny to maybe do an article in Pano about USCC and the existence of the new Registry.
I believe that is the same weekend as the boardwalk event in Ocean City or is it on the 10th of September? I will see what I can do but I might have to be someplace. Sounds like a fun trip.
Great Job!! Can we use this for our website? I'd also like to add your car to our "Profile" page. Not many there just yet, but hoping to get more from other members.
Nice but I sent Manny all the facts about the car and for some reasons he didn't use it. The car has the thin side glass and is actually 275hp not 260hp the one thing that makes this car extra special over the port cars and standard RS's. More importantly nearly 40 additional ft pounds of tq over stock. He didn't mention the short gear box and 20/100 LSD. It is a standard RS LWF and much more he omitted.
Was anyone ever able to obtain the Andial dyno sheets after the cam changes were done by them? Would be very interested to see the differences in output before and after the modifications. Did these modifications still remain when the cars were reconverted back to street legal specification after the series cancellation? Interesting to see that Porsche AG underrated these M64/03 engines in the US Cup and ROW RS by ~10hp or more. Thanks guys for your work on the registry and everything on this thread it’s all pure gold! Super interesting and a great read!
My understanding is the engines were sealed and left as they were after ANDIAL converted them. There was a discussion here with someone who worked at ANDIAL. I don't recall where he posted but it was about a year or so back. I am too busy to search today but will try to see if I can located it and add a link. He posted dyno numbers with documentation showing 275 hp. It is the additional tq and gearing combined that makes a huge difference. I have driven the different variations including my track rat which was a DJ copied cup car and IMO the ANDIAL modified engines really hit a sweat spot for power, torque and gearing.
I can arrange for a dyno session but after driving both I am sure it will be similar to my engine. It dynoed at 275.3 hp @ 5545 RPM and 272.69 tq @ 4820 RPM calculated.
I saw the dyno data that Neil graciously uploaded. He stated that these numbers were sent to them from the factory and has all the US Cup (port, parts, and race) engines on it and their power outputs. Neil said he needed to find the Andial dyno data in his files, but their was never a follow up unless I missed a post.
Also I have a question on whether or not this lift in my carpet is correct for a port car? I was told by Ray Joseph of RPM Sports Cars whom I bought my car from that the lift in the carpet on the front of the drivers side sill was put their intentionally by the factory and I should never fix it. I have not found anything that can confirm or deny this so does anyone know if it should be like this?
My understanding is the engines were sealed and left as they were after ANDIAL converted them. There was a discussion here with someone who worked at ANDIAL. I don't recall where he posted but it was about a year or so back. I am too busy to search today but will try to see if I can located it and add a link. He posted dyno numbers with documentation showing 275 hp. It is the additional tq and gearing combined that makes a huge difference. I have driven the different variations including my track rat which was a DJ copied cup car and IMO the ANDIAL modified engines really hit a sweat spot for power, torque and gearing.
I can arrange for a dyno session but after driving both I am sure it will be similar to my engine. It dynoed at 275.3 hp @ 5545 RPM and 272.69 tq @ 4820 RPM calculated.
The RS/Cup engine's parts were selected from the best values among available parts classes, for example C2 rods spec from 615 to 696 grams...an 81 gram variance so picking the lightest rods decreases reciprocating mass and lowers bearing loads. Cylinder height groups vary from 82.750 70 to 82.770, the shorter cylinder will result in slightly higher compression. Bore groups vary from 100.000 to 100.028 mm with the larger bore having slightly larger displacement. The most desirable engine would be built from a cylinder "Height Class 5" (a 5 circled by a triangle stamp on cylinder base) and "Bore Class 3" (3 stamped on cylinder base) with rods of "Weight group 3" part number 964.103.020.53 the 3 = weight group 3. This combination yields a slightly higher displacement higher compression engine, a so called "high motor".
Statistically one could be lucky enough to get one in a standard C2 but they were sought for the RS and Cup.
Then the RS and Cup Motronic ECU is programmed for a R+M/2 of 93 octane while the standard C2 of the time was programed for only 90 octane. This resulted in the 10 DIN HP claimed increase over the standard C2 engine.
As far as the "Andial Mods" these consisted of an opened air cleaner box and unmuffled but catalytic converter equipped exhaust system.
I have had two of these. One was an Andial conversion and the other was not.
The Andial conversion still had the seals as shown below. I don't think these motors were returned to the same configuration as the non-Andial cars. The non-Andial car didn't have the seals.
One other difference between the Andial and non-Andial cars was the mounting point for the cage n the engine bay. It remained on the converted cars.
Porsche needed to get these cars sold and to their perspective owners and didn't spend a lot of money on them after the race series was canceled.
I spoke with Porsche back in the day, and the rumor was that all of the motors were hand picked. Some people said these particular motors were balanced and blueprinted specifically for the race series. Today, you might think that was crazy, but do your research. Porsche had financial problems in the early 90s, and this race series was supposed to help advertise their cars.
08-02-2022, 12:57 AM
