Did Porsche detuned the 951? Or it was fate? Article inside
08-28-2013, 10:15 PM
#61
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So you betrayed the 928 guys, lol
08-28-2013, 10:59 PM
#63
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08-28-2013, 11:11 PM
#64
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I have several books downstairs that indicate the 944 and whatever follow-ons were definitely intended to be the successor of the 911 for the flagship. The reason that is given that it didn't happen was Black Monday... the US yuppies that were buying up all the 944s quit having all that income and quit buying them in droves like they had been. Porsche was left with their diehards that vastly preferred the 911 because that is what they were used to... so the 911 resumed its supremacy, but not before the 968 entered production.
PS- Purists... the first Porsche was, in fact, ELECTRIC. lol >_<
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lohner-Porsche
PS- Purists... the first Porsche was, in fact, ELECTRIC. lol >_<
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lohner-Porsche
08-29-2013, 08:19 AM
#65
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An '86 Turbo S? There was one?
I live in Minnesota (anyone dumb enough to live here, will not make the claim to know better than anyone else...), where the weather and road conditions are more severe than most of Europe, certainly more so than the UK. If you daily drive a 944 thru the winter here for 20+ years, you will see right thru it, just like a 911 or 928. Same body panel prep and paints were used on 944s as any of the other production porsches of the same vintage. None are Deloreans.
Reality is that the post mid-70s porsches actually hold up quite well compared to most other cars. It was decades later for some of the other manufacturers to go to the E-coatings and other corrosion protection for body panels.
I live in Minnesota (anyone dumb enough to live here, will not make the claim to know better than anyone else...), where the weather and road conditions are more severe than most of Europe, certainly more so than the UK. If you daily drive a 944 thru the winter here for 20+ years, you will see right thru it, just like a 911 or 928. Same body panel prep and paints were used on 944s as any of the other production porsches of the same vintage. None are Deloreans.
Reality is that the post mid-70s porsches actually hold up quite well compared to most other cars. It was decades later for some of the other manufacturers to go to the E-coatings and other corrosion protection for body panels.
944 chasis is fully galvanized and does not rust, I had 3 944 cars and the only rust was on one car that was damaged and poorly fixed. Exception to this are early cars that are not galvanized.
924 was developed by porsche and was one of the most famous designs of harm lagaay, the same guy that was a part of design team for 911, and designed 968, 993, Boxster, Cayenne, 996, Carrera GT.
I bought one "wrong side steering wheel" 44 turbo from UK, and with it I got porsche service invoices for last 10 or so years. Sum of those invoices for 10 years is more than 50k pounds. No major work either. Not exactly 4k.
924 was developed by porsche and was one of the most famous designs of harm lagaay, the same guy that was a part of design team for 911, and designed 968, 993, Boxster, Cayenne, 996, Carrera GT.
I bought one "wrong side steering wheel" 44 turbo from UK, and with it I got porsche service invoices for last 10 or so years. Sum of those invoices for 10 years is more than 50k pounds. No major work either. Not exactly 4k.
I know who Harm Lagaay is, in fact he was one of the drivers who raced a928 to 7th place in the 1987 Nurburgring 24hrs. For some reason he chose the fat brother over his own creation... Must have been a good one, eh?
I have seen the fully galvanized chasis on a 944 and I have also seen the double dip fully galvanized chasis on a 928... I have also seen from very close the quality of the paintwork on both and there is no room for comparison. The fact is one was twice as expensive than the other and there was a reason...
When I said 4k I meant that most 944Ts are 4k cars in the UK regardless of what has been sunk in maintaining them... The same applies to 928s, 840s, 560s, 635s etc...
I am amazed so many of you are just raising to the bait and taking this whole thing so seriously... Unbelievable... Must be all those years of being told about the VW lineage and engines under the bonnet (or hood for the U'mericans)
08-29-2013, 03:11 PM
#66
I have several books downstairs that indicate the 944 and whatever follow-ons were definitely intended to be the successor of the 911 for the flagship. The reason that is given that it didn't happen was Black Monday... the US yuppies that were buying up all the 944s quit having all that income and quit buying them in droves like they had been. Porsche was left with their diehards that vastly preferred the 911 because that is what they were used to... so the 911 resumed its supremacy, but not before the 968 entered production.
PS- Purists... the first Porsche was, in fact, ELECTRIC. lol >_<
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lohner-Porsche
PS- Purists... the first Porsche was, in fact, ELECTRIC. lol >_<
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lohner-Porsche
tino
08-29-2013, 04:59 PM
#67
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I know it's verboten to question the good Dr but research TATRA.....that should keep you guys busy for a while if you really want to discuss authenticity.....
08-29-2013, 06:44 PM
#68
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are you guys done? is it time to larterize this thread?
08-29-2013, 06:53 PM
#70
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08-29-2013, 07:08 PM
#72
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TATRA
so the origins of the 911 go back to TATRA, that is mind blowing. Tatra 911 Carrera, Tatra 997 TT, Tatra C4S, lol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatra_%28company%29
Tatra and the conception of the Volkswagen Beetle
Both Hitler and Porsche were influenced by the Tatras.[6] Hitler was a keen automotive enthusiast, and had ridden in Tatras during political tours of Czechoslovakia.[1][6] He had also dined numerous times with Ledwinka.[6] After one of these dinners Hitler remarked to Porsche, "This is the car for my roads".[1][6][7] From 1933 onwards, Ledwinka and Porsche met regularly to discuss their designs,[8] and Porsche admitted "Well, sometimes I looked over his shoulder and sometimes he looked over mine" while designing the Volkswagen.[6][7] There is no doubt that the Beetle bore a striking resemblance to the Tatras, particularly the Tatra V570.[6] The Tatra T97 of 1936 had a rear-located, rear-wheel drive, air-cooled four-cylinder boxer engine accommodating four passengers and providing luggage storage under the front bonnet and behind the rear seat. Another similarity between this Tatra and the Beetle is the central structural tunnel.
so the origins of the 911 go back to TATRA, that is mind blowing. Tatra 911 Carrera, Tatra 997 TT, Tatra C4S, lol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatra_%28company%29
Tatra and the conception of the Volkswagen Beetle
Both Hitler and Porsche were influenced by the Tatras.[6] Hitler was a keen automotive enthusiast, and had ridden in Tatras during political tours of Czechoslovakia.[1][6] He had also dined numerous times with Ledwinka.[6] After one of these dinners Hitler remarked to Porsche, "This is the car for my roads".[1][6][7] From 1933 onwards, Ledwinka and Porsche met regularly to discuss their designs,[8] and Porsche admitted "Well, sometimes I looked over his shoulder and sometimes he looked over mine" while designing the Volkswagen.[6][7] There is no doubt that the Beetle bore a striking resemblance to the Tatras, particularly the Tatra V570.[6] The Tatra T97 of 1936 had a rear-located, rear-wheel drive, air-cooled four-cylinder boxer engine accommodating four passengers and providing luggage storage under the front bonnet and behind the rear seat. Another similarity between this Tatra and the Beetle is the central structural tunnel.
08-29-2013, 07:25 PM
#73
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every 911T, TT has come from the factory fully tuned and ready to prove that Ferdinand Alexander Porsche built the greatest Porsche ever. not so fast. the greatest Porsche ever up to that time, was the 968 Turbo S of Harm Lagaay's design team... and delivered with 1/3 of it's production car hp left on the cutting room floor. the 3.0 turbo people are almost as lucky as smart.
but you guys already know.
but you guys already know.
08-29-2013, 09:27 PM
#74
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TATRA
so the origins of the 911 go back to TATRA, that is mind blowing. Tatra 911 Carrera, Tatra 997 TT, Tatra C4S, lol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatra_%28company%29
Tatra and the conception of the Volkswagen Beetle
Both Hitler and Porsche were influenced by the Tatras.[6] Hitler was a keen automotive enthusiast, and had ridden in Tatras during political tours of Czechoslovakia.[1][6] He had also dined numerous times with Ledwinka.[6] After one of these dinners Hitler remarked to Porsche, "This is the car for my roads".[1][6][7] From 1933 onwards, Ledwinka and Porsche met regularly to discuss their designs,[8] and Porsche admitted "Well, sometimes I looked over his shoulder and sometimes he looked over mine" while designing the Volkswagen.[6][7] There is no doubt that the Beetle bore a striking resemblance to the Tatras, particularly the Tatra V570.[6] The Tatra T97 of 1936 had a rear-located, rear-wheel drive, air-cooled four-cylinder boxer engine accommodating four passengers and providing luggage storage under the front bonnet and behind the rear seat. Another similarity between this Tatra and the Beetle is the central structural tunnel.
so the origins of the 911 go back to TATRA, that is mind blowing. Tatra 911 Carrera, Tatra 997 TT, Tatra C4S, lol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatra_%28company%29
Tatra and the conception of the Volkswagen Beetle
Both Hitler and Porsche were influenced by the Tatras.[6] Hitler was a keen automotive enthusiast, and had ridden in Tatras during political tours of Czechoslovakia.[1][6] He had also dined numerous times with Ledwinka.[6] After one of these dinners Hitler remarked to Porsche, "This is the car for my roads".[1][6][7] From 1933 onwards, Ledwinka and Porsche met regularly to discuss their designs,[8] and Porsche admitted "Well, sometimes I looked over his shoulder and sometimes he looked over mine" while designing the Volkswagen.[6][7] There is no doubt that the Beetle bore a striking resemblance to the Tatras, particularly the Tatra V570.[6] The Tatra T97 of 1936 had a rear-located, rear-wheel drive, air-cooled four-cylinder boxer engine accommodating four passengers and providing luggage storage under the front bonnet and behind the rear seat. Another similarity between this Tatra and the Beetle is the central structural tunnel.
From memory Wermacht and LuftWaffe officers were forbidden to use Tatras due to their tendencies to handle like early 911s...
08-29-2013, 10:44 PM
#75
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1993 Porsche 968 Turbo RS
production 4
price $ $ 228,000 dm
valvetrain 2 Valves per Cyl
displacement 3000 cc / 183.07 in³
bore 104 mm / 4.1 in
stroke 88 mm / 3.5 in
power 261.0 kw / 350 bhp @ 5400 rpm
specific output 116.67 bhp per litre
bhp/weight 259.07 bhp per tonne
torque 500.3 nm / 369 ft lbs @ 3000 rpm
front tires 265/630 slicks
rear tires 305/650 slicks
front wheels F 45.7 x 25.4 cm / 18 x 10 in
rear wheels R 45.7 x 27.9 cm / 18 x 11 in
curb weight 1351 kg / 2976 lbs
transmission 6-Speed Transaxle
0 - 60 mph ~4.4 seconds
1993 Porsche 928 GTS
engine V8
valvetrain DOHC 4 valves / cyl
displacement 5397 cc / 329.3 in³
bore 103.9 mm / 4.09 in
stroke 87.9 mm / 3.46 in
compression 10.4:1
power 257.3 kw / 345.0 bhp @ 5700 rpm
specific output 63.92 bhp per litre
bhp/weight bhp per tonne
torque 500.0 nm / 368.8 ft lbs @ 4250 rpm
driven wheels Front Engine
front brakes Vented Discs w/ ABS
f brake size mm / in
rear brakes Vented Discs w/ ABS
r brake size mm / in
steering Rack & Pinion w/ Power Assist
curb weight 1630 kg / 3594 lbs
wheelbase 2499 mm / 98.4 in
front track 1552 mm / 61.1 in
rear track 1615 mm / 63.6 in
length 4524 mm / 178.1 in
width 1890 mm / 74.4 in
height 1283 mm / 50.5 in
transmission 5-Speed Manual / 4-Speed Auto
1993 Porsche 911 Turbo S 3.3
engine M30/69SL Flat-6
aspiration Twin Turbo
displacement 3299 cc / 201.3 in³
bore 97 mm / 3.82 in
stroke 74.4 mm / 2.93 in
compression 7.0:1
power 280 kw / 375.5 bhp @ 6000 rpm
specific output 113.82 bhp per litre
bhp/weight 291.09 bhp per tonne
torque 490 nm / 361.4 ft lbs @ 4800 rpm
redline 6800
body / frame Unitary Steel Monocoque
driven wheels Rear Engine
wheel type 3-Part Aluminum Alloy
front tires 235/40ZR-18
rear tires 265/40ZR-18
front brakes Vented Discs
front wheels F 45.7 x 20.3 cm / 18.0 x 8.0 in
rear wheels R 45.7 x 25.4 cm / 18.0 x 10.0 in
curb weight 1290 kg / 2844 lbs
length 4250 mm / 167.3 in
width 1780 mm / 70.1 in
height 1290 mm / 50.8 in
transmission G50/52 5-Speed Manual
top speed ~290 kph / 180.09 mph
0 - 60 mph ~4.6 seconds
0 - 100 kph ~4.7 seconds
0 - 200 kph ~14.2 seconds
fuel capacity 91 litres or 24.02 gal.