Green Hunter dyno - 514 rwhp @ 17 psi
10-07-2010, 12:04 PM
#61
Busy next thursday evening but pretty flexible day time if that works??
10-07-2010, 01:59 PM
#63
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Gustaf, Nice numbers. Keep up the good work! Why do they show Nm and HP. Wouldn't they show
NM and Killowatts or another "metric" HP measurement? Seems they are mixing SAE and Metric. 609 NM is 449 Ft Lbs. by our calculation. Is it just because you guys are used to NM just like we are used to Ft. Lbs? And HP is more a Internationally understood number?
NM and Killowatts or another "metric" HP measurement? Seems they are mixing SAE and Metric. 609 NM is 449 Ft Lbs. by our calculation. Is it just because you guys are used to NM just like we are used to Ft. Lbs? And HP is more a Internationally understood number?
).
10-07-2010, 02:00 PM
#64
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10-07-2010, 02:38 PM
#66
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There are nice 951/968 cars with 3.0 builds that aren't putting down big numbers. The factory 968TS was just over 300hp with around 350tq.
Once you want 450 to 500 WHP with reliability, the cost looks like Duke's tq curve after 2000RPM. You have additional engine heat to contain, intake and intercooler air flow issues, additional heat shielding, additional transmission cooling, EXPENSIVE engine management for tuning, much better brake and suspension parts, turbo requirements, clutch requirements, and the list goes on.
Duke's car is a complete package that cost a few bucks. The short block is just the foundation, and then you have to build around this motor to get what you want. The costs vary, depending on how much reliable power you are seeking.
10-07-2010, 04:16 PM
#68
You know you want back to the love and hate relationship of a 951
our hate & love relationship is just too simple & easy.We 951 builders just cannot understand all the difficulties Pete have gone throug with his 996 build up. I suppose none of us are not patient enough to solve all of those mystery things his current build up has caused.
And yes,Emil was also watched here like that another very strong red headed character Astrid created
10-07-2010, 05:58 PM
#69
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Congrats Duke. Man you've got more power than me at probably 6psi than I do at 21psi!! I didn't know you had your car in the U.S.?? 
In terms of bang for buck, well it's relative. How much is a shop going to charge you to build a turn key LS conversion vs doing one of these motors 'right'? I think the difference is that to get big power and reliability out of our 4 cylinder motors you probably do have to do it 'right'. Also what you want from your car can make a big difference. You can probably do a pretty decent 3L on a budget if you do all your own work and don't want to use it for extended track time. A V8 engine is going to give you reliability over a 4 for the same power level I think.
However what is not lost on Duke and others is that these cars are actually Porsches, not Porvettes. For the guys with V8s in their cars, no matter how impressive they are, they are now not real Porsches. There is nothing wrong with that, but I think for the guys that push these cars and motors to the boundaries they do it because they want to, not because they need to. The V8 conversions would solve a lot of heartache for many of us, but it's up to the owner to pick his / her path.
Great results Duke and can't wait for the T shirt.
In terms of bang for buck, well it's relative. How much is a shop going to charge you to build a turn key LS conversion vs doing one of these motors 'right'? I think the difference is that to get big power and reliability out of our 4 cylinder motors you probably do have to do it 'right'. Also what you want from your car can make a big difference. You can probably do a pretty decent 3L on a budget if you do all your own work and don't want to use it for extended track time. A V8 engine is going to give you reliability over a 4 for the same power level I think.
However what is not lost on Duke and others is that these cars are actually Porsches, not Porvettes. For the guys with V8s in their cars, no matter how impressive they are, they are now not real Porsches. There is nothing wrong with that, but I think for the guys that push these cars and motors to the boundaries they do it because they want to, not because they need to. The V8 conversions would solve a lot of heartache for many of us, but it's up to the owner to pick his / her path.
Great results Duke and can't wait for the T shirt.
10-07-2010, 06:06 PM
#70
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10-07-2010, 06:21 PM
#71
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You'll see alot of posts from people talking about how easy or cheep it is, funny thing is none of them have done successful builds.
10-07-2010, 06:44 PM
#72
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Thread Starter
But sure you can buy a 968 engine for $4k, install shorter rods, turbocharge it and use 951 motronic, flywheel, small clutch upgrade etc. and get away with a small amount of $ but what's the point to prove?
In fact it's quite possible to spend less than $4k and build faster car (non porsche) if a single dyno number is what you're after. But that is not what I'm after. The purpose of my build was not just to build something with high power for a very limited lifespan. So please just accept that if you want to build something the "right" way it costs. There's a reason behind a real race team budget numbers.....
I would never say it has to cost $30k to build a 3.0l engine, it depends on your goals. If you want to build a cheap engine where you haven't addressed important aspects I won't be critical, in fact I would encourage people to do this as long as they fully understand what limitations that may come with their package.
10-07-2010, 06:57 PM
#73
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My subjective response to that = the truth. No matter what my own opinion is, what John says is the truth. At least up to current date. What happens in the future no one knows.
But sure you can buy a 968 engine for $4k, install shorter rods, turbocharge it and use 951 motronic, flywheel, small clutch upgrade etc. and get away with a small amount of $ but what's the point to prove?
In fact it's quite possible to spend less than $4k and build faster car (non porsche) if a single dyno number is what you're after. But that is not what I'm after. The purpose of my build was not just to build something with high power for a very limited lifespan. So please just accept that if you want to build something the "right" way it costs. There's a reason behind a real race team budget numbers.....
I would never say it has to cost $30k to build a 3.0l engine, it depends on your goals. If you want to build a cheap engine where you haven't addressed important aspects I won't be critical, in fact I would encourage people to do this as long as they fully understand what limitations that may come with their package.
But sure you can buy a 968 engine for $4k, install shorter rods, turbocharge it and use 951 motronic, flywheel, small clutch upgrade etc. and get away with a small amount of $ but what's the point to prove?
In fact it's quite possible to spend less than $4k and build faster car (non porsche) if a single dyno number is what you're after. But that is not what I'm after. The purpose of my build was not just to build something with high power for a very limited lifespan. So please just accept that if you want to build something the "right" way it costs. There's a reason behind a real race team budget numbers.....
I would never say it has to cost $30k to build a 3.0l engine, it depends on your goals. If you want to build a cheap engine where you haven't addressed important aspects I won't be critical, in fact I would encourage people to do this as long as they fully understand what limitations that may come with their package.
10-07-2010, 07:07 PM
#74
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Don't get me started on calculating costs for this car, I will end up crying in the shower scrubbing myself crying "whyyy, oh whyyy" 
10-07-2010, 07:08 PM
#75
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