3ltr twincam engine, coming together
06-01-2011, 02:50 AM
#166
Rennlist Member
So you're going the budget route Bruce?!?!
Looks like the CHEAP estimate.
Motec, wiring and tuning.. um... huge bucks. Retail at a good deal.. $4500 for my set up.
most people spend a grand on the exhaust. Including down pipe\
My turbo was $2K
my base motor was $3K
if you had to buy an SFR intake i think its $1600?
machine work $1000 at minimum to put it all together and bore, and re-do the head, timing belt of course, water pump, oil pump, etc. etc... who in their right mind would not do that while the motor you just bought is being built?
Don't even mention all new sensors.. duh..
it's just a ridiculous cost to own these things as a badass build.
(don't even think about the ITB carbon intake I'm making or the aluminum torque tube, (snails pace i know) or all the custom header and intercooler piping.Custom intercooler, radiator, oil cooler, Dual wastegate twinscroll shenanigans, full cage, Completely fiberglass, All Lexan, 996TT 4 wheel brakes, ducting, custom frame pieces, seats, rims, fuel syst. safety equipment, etc, etc, etc, ec, etc,e..faerl akl;akl;al;kfkl;fa..sddfa and stuff. )
EDIT: OMG.. LOL.. I just repeated everything John said above... ok then.. double support for the,"Its gonna be expensive" route.
That said.. i didn't spend much of anything to get 400whp on my stock 951. max chips. home built exhaust, used turbo. pump and injectors. total of about $2K-$3K.
Motec, wiring and tuning.. um... huge bucks. Retail at a good deal.. $4500 for my set up.
most people spend a grand on the exhaust. Including down pipe\
My turbo was $2K
my base motor was $3K
if you had to buy an SFR intake i think its $1600?
machine work $1000 at minimum to put it all together and bore, and re-do the head, timing belt of course, water pump, oil pump, etc. etc... who in their right mind would not do that while the motor you just bought is being built?
Don't even mention all new sensors.. duh..
it's just a ridiculous cost to own these things as a badass build.
(don't even think about the ITB carbon intake I'm making or the aluminum torque tube, (snails pace i know) or all the custom header and intercooler piping.Custom intercooler, radiator, oil cooler, Dual wastegate twinscroll shenanigans, full cage, Completely fiberglass, All Lexan, 996TT 4 wheel brakes, ducting, custom frame pieces, seats, rims, fuel syst. safety equipment, etc, etc, etc, ec, etc,e..faerl akl;akl;al;kfkl;fa..sddfa and stuff. )
EDIT: OMG.. LOL.. I just repeated everything John said above... ok then.. double support for the,"Its gonna be expensive" route.
That said.. i didn't spend much of anything to get 400whp on my stock 951. max chips. home built exhaust, used turbo. pump and injectors. total of about $2K-$3K.
06-01-2011, 03:40 AM
#167
Three Wheelin'
There are other options that are perfect for 16v turbo engine and that are much cheaper.
You don't need 4500 usd Motec and sensors if stock sensors work just fine and you can buy fully equipeed VEMS unit for 1000 that does at least the same job and does it well.
My friend Kert (CMF in this board) has 3.0 16v engine and he did it much cheaper and it produces easily 550+ hp. Here's the thread: https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turb...1-project.html
You don't need to spend 2000 usd on turbo when you can get Holset HX40 for 500 and it works BETTER than GT3582R, both in boost treshold and efficiency. Not to talk about longetivity.
Kert uses stock S2 pistons and uprated rods but you can use 951 rods easily up to 500 hp. Markus951 used 951 rods and engine had 500 rwhp.
I fabricated my exhaust manifold for my 2.5 16v for 400 usd in materials, spot-welded it together and had friend TIG-d it together.
Headwork together with stainless valves, ceramic coating on exhaust ports cost me aroun 900 usd, 951 pistons cost me 300 usd and flycutting cost me around 20 usd in parts.
It is easy to throw money in whatever you do but it is actually possible to do same thing with the same (or even better) result and cheaper. It is not always easy, but it is possible. Use your brains not just your wallets.
You don't need 4500 usd Motec and sensors if stock sensors work just fine and you can buy fully equipeed VEMS unit for 1000 that does at least the same job and does it well.
My friend Kert (CMF in this board) has 3.0 16v engine and he did it much cheaper and it produces easily 550+ hp. Here's the thread: https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turb...1-project.html
You don't need to spend 2000 usd on turbo when you can get Holset HX40 for 500 and it works BETTER than GT3582R, both in boost treshold and efficiency. Not to talk about longetivity.
Kert uses stock S2 pistons and uprated rods but you can use 951 rods easily up to 500 hp. Markus951 used 951 rods and engine had 500 rwhp.
I fabricated my exhaust manifold for my 2.5 16v for 400 usd in materials, spot-welded it together and had friend TIG-d it together.
Headwork together with stainless valves, ceramic coating on exhaust ports cost me aroun 900 usd, 951 pistons cost me 300 usd and flycutting cost me around 20 usd in parts.
It is easy to throw money in whatever you do but it is actually possible to do same thing with the same (or even better) result and cheaper. It is not always easy, but it is possible. Use your brains not just your wallets.
06-01-2011, 04:23 AM
#168
You're absolutely right. You just need to be creative and you will spare a lot of $€. Perhaps we are so poor here in Europe, so we are always looking for a cost effective solutions. Many of use are willing to fabricate parts ourselves and we are not looking for "Stage I / II / II" etc. readily available kits 
06-01-2011, 04:50 AM
#169
Three Wheelin'
Forgot to add eearlier. I fabricated ITB turbo manifold for my 931 race-car for less than 600 usd total, including all the parts and I could do the same for 2.5/3.0 liter engine as well. I made the same diffusor-style intake for my 2.5 also, but not ITB's.
For me one of the most exciting things about project cars is challenge of creatingsomething new, not just byuing stuff and slapping them together. Of course, Porsche 16valvers provide as much fabricationg challenge as one could imagine. And then some
One of the most extreme examples of engineering prowess and ingenuity is old russian Moskvitch which Olli should know very well. It was made by Finn Ville Oksanen and basically ALL of the parts on that car are self-made sans Hestec ECU and gearbox. With its 1.5liter engine it produces around 800 hp through compound turbocharging and has won many awards. BUt when looking at it one would wonder how in the hell it holds together. Even wastegates and blow-offs are self-made and not in most aesthetical way. But it works and in fact he rarely pops the cars hood up on events.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm4ncLWb1eg
For me one of the most exciting things about project cars is challenge of creatingsomething new, not just byuing stuff and slapping them together. Of course, Porsche 16valvers provide as much fabricationg challenge as one could imagine. And then some
One of the most extreme examples of engineering prowess and ingenuity is old russian Moskvitch which Olli should know very well. It was made by Finn Ville Oksanen and basically ALL of the parts on that car are self-made sans Hestec ECU and gearbox. With its 1.5liter engine it produces around 800 hp through compound turbocharging and has won many awards. BUt when looking at it one would wonder how in the hell it holds together. Even wastegates and blow-offs are self-made and not in most aesthetical way. But it works and in fact he rarely pops the cars hood up on events.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm4ncLWb1eg
06-01-2011, 05:06 AM
#170
Drifting
Thread Starter
Daily update, got the pipes done today, everything under the car is now hooked up and ready to go. I do need to make a bracket to hold the dipstick down. but it should be started tomorrow
Sean
Sean
06-01-2011, 05:44 AM
#171
I wish I had enough spare time to be creative... sadly I'm relegated to investing in proven products right away as I can't "afford" to do things wrong, both from a financial and spare time point of view.
Looking great Sean, can't wait to hear how it performs.
Looking great Sean, can't wait to hear how it performs.
06-01-2011, 09:21 AM
#173
Rennlist Member
Tsk tsk...you are really working way too slowly. Looks shabby too. 
Going to have to call you 'The Machine' from now on. Hopefully you can beat Chris Stannard's snaky S2 to keep the status quo to the turbo guys!!
Going to have to call you 'The Machine' from now on. Hopefully you can beat Chris Stannard's snaky S2 to keep the status quo to the turbo guys!!
06-02-2011, 04:57 AM
#174
Drifting
Thread Starter
Its up and running. we had to do a lot of small fab work today, just gettings things to fit right and so on. made the stays for the catchcan and custom coolant pipe down the side of the engine. started first crank.
Sean
Sean
06-02-2011, 05:27 AM
#176
Rennlist Member
Great stuff Sean!! Looks really good too. I like the Black crackle intake. Suits the car. Now just go and put some miles on the motor and be ready for WP. This little black duck is going to shuffle through that first kink nice and quick!!
06-02-2011, 07:56 AM
#178
Drifting
Thread Starter
This build is not just about making a fast 951 but we also want to show what is needed to put one of these together. It's not exactly cheap but it's not as expensive as you would think either. No need for standalones or ITB to make great usable power.
I can't wait to drive it Patrick, I'm staying in manly for the next 2 weeks(house sitting) so I'm leaving the car at work. I don't want to park it on the street in manly. I will take it for a drive tomorrow and put some km's on it. I'm going to limit the boost for our first sprint.
Can't wait to see how it performs down at Wakefield Mark. I think the extra 500cc is really going to make a big difference on the track.
Sean
06-02-2011, 08:01 AM
#179
Drifting
Thread Starter
Ps, I love your avatar Patrick, hurry up and get them mounted and on your car. They have to be one of the best looking wheels I have seen
06-02-2011, 08:25 AM
#180
Rennlist Member
Well you don't really have to run that much boost at Wakefield anyway. All that nice new chunky torque will see you flying out of the corners and the 16v head will take care of up top.
Still lots of stuff yet to be done on my car....wish I could work at your pace!
Still lots of stuff yet to be done on my car....wish I could work at your pace!