Thom

I was working on a S the other day and there was a 968 engine lying besides.
I took off both intake and noticed the seal were the same.
I suppose the seal is the same for all three 16V engines...?

Duke

I overlaid a S2 and a 968 gasket in the past and they are actually not identical, the 968 ports are larger (and the gasket too).

fortysixandtwo

Yeah I thought the ports are larger on the 968, but wasn't positive. So either the S2 head or 968 runners may need some port matching to be used togther.

Thom

Interesting, I'll have to check this again... The difference may not be obvious if I wasn't able to spot it.

Duke

You have to overlay them to see it, otherwise they look identical
But it's not as bad as the 2.5l 8v intake gaskets I saw on a 2.7l engine I tore apart

schip43

OK so I'm the monkey in the room but I'm not getting the insane dollars on one of these builds. Yes the best of everything is expensive but if you have an S2 as a base, it looks like custom manifold, mod the 951/S2 headers and custom forged pistons. Ok throw in a new turbo and 4 inch exhuast or electronic cut out.

That's not 10k so what am I missing ?

Paulyy

i'll just throw in some est rounded prices.

1k for the pistons
1k for new con rods
1k probably for all new gaskets
1-2k for a new turbo
1k intake
1k for DME chips/maf ect
500 for exhaust
500 (im guessing) for new studs, nuts and bolts and other bits and pieces oils ect.

base engine between 1-3k

67King

968 uses 39mm intake valves. The S2 uses 37. The 37's are a bit small for a 3.0L (almost perfect for a 2.5 though). The intake manifold should be sized accordingly.

JET951

Stock Turbo Throttle body for now Rod.

Yes still stock ignition Duke.

Hi Sid
We actually finished off a customers 3.0ltr 16v turbo a few weeks ago, almost identical builds, the only difference being a slightly bigger vitesse stage 5 turbo on our build.

In comparison to our own 2.5 turbo we were running the 16v gets to boost a lot faster, it just seems to want to rev, the 16v doesnt not quite have that big surge of torque at 3000rpm, instead it just keeps pulling all the way to 6700rpm, where as our 2.5 8v only made power up until 5600rpm. The top end of the 16v turbo is fantastic in comparison

We are keeping the S2 R&P for now as its almost a perfect match for our tracks down here. even with more power i think its going to be spot on

Yes the intake we have is for a 968, as Duke has said its slightly different but only slightly. infact our secret inlet manifold gasket works perfectly with it.


Hi Pauly,
No squirters, i think they are a good idea though. No modifications were done to the head, we serviced it and had the K-lined the Valves. Stock valves and springs.

Sean

JET951

I think your nearly on the money there Pauly. Of course while your in there do all the coolant hoses as well. there are some small things to mod but its an easy swap. if you use a 944 S2 as a base and go the route i have gone with our 2 16v turbo builds you will need a DME/KLR and wiring harness from a 951.
you will also need turbo stuff such as turbo engine mount/ Xover pipe etc. if you start with a turbo and get a S2 engine on its own you can swap a lot of parts over.
Sean

schip43

Well those numbers are about what I was thinking. Really pistons and roda are the same if you want to get rid of the Tiger Tank weight stockers! So it mostly looks like the cost is determined by where you start.

Thanks

JohnKoaWood

That's about it.. and almost everything.. FWIW, I am $1700 or so into my exhaust so far, and that's to get from the head to the turbo... and without a WG yet... but then I did buy it used, and had the original manufacturer modify it to suit my needs..




And where you want to end up... MID sleeve the block add another $2500 or so for machining, but the bottom end would end up virtually bullet proof (until you get into BIG numbers and see block distortion.. AKA the DOOM factor).

3K can get you a good 3L base long block, but there is a little more to the story than just slap it together and go.. to truly make the most of it (remember that is a $10,000 and up MOTOR) you might also consider a good, proven stand alone solution ($2K and up, depending on how plug and play you want it)... and then you can really get into supporting mods.. (injectors, fuel system, etc..etc..etc..)

Right at or about $10K you have a 3L turbo power plant, but the rest of the car will need attention to make full use of the motor.. I'm not saying it cant be done on a budget, but really... why cheap out, when installing a TEN THOUSAND DOLLAR MOTOR?

Now a 16V 2.5... maybe half the $10K.. maybe a little more...

FWIW, the car in my avatar is remaining at 2.5L, may eventually be a 16V turbo, but the long game is a 3+L 16V motor... has been my plan all along, and it will get there eventually... maybe... however all big power mods are being done PRIOR to installing a big numbers motor (suspension, brakes, transaxle, induction, exhaust, fuel, EMS, the list keeps going)

95ONE

Looks like the CHEAP estimate.

Motec, wiring and tuning.. um... huge bucks. Retail at a good deal.. $4500 for my set up.
most people spend a grand on the exhaust. Including down pipe\
My turbo was $2K
my base motor was $3K
if you had to buy an SFR intake i think its $1600?
machine work $1000 at minimum to put it all together and bore, and re-do the head, timing belt of course, water pump, oil pump, etc. etc... who in their right mind would not do that while the motor you just bought is being built?

Don't even mention all new sensors.. duh..

it's just a ridiculous cost to own these things as a badass build.
(don't even think about the ITB carbon intake I'm making or the aluminum torque tube, (snails pace i know) or all the custom header and intercooler piping.Custom intercooler, radiator, oil cooler, Dual wastegate twinscroll shenanigans, full cage, Completely fiberglass, All Lexan, 996TT 4 wheel brakes, ducting, custom frame pieces, seats, rims, fuel syst. safety equipment, etc, etc, etc, ec, etc,e..faerl akl;akl;al;kfkl;fa..sddfa and stuff. )


EDIT: OMG.. LOL.. I just repeated everything John said above... ok then.. double support for the,"Its gonna be expensive" route.


That said.. i didn't spend much of anything to get 400whp on my stock 951. max chips. home built exhaust, used turbo. pump and injectors. total of about $2K-$3K.

schip43

Suspension already done on mine. It's a street car MO30, Koni Dbl Adj Front, Koni Coil Over Rear, Latest MO30 Sway Bars, Camber plates, still have the stock bushings, throughout so those will change but I'm pleased with her as she sits and it's way more capable than I am!

So going up from there would be Big Reds and Motons? Don't doubt the value but not really seeing the point in my case.

Anyway I see how similar the 16v / 3.0 are, if you do the 16v head your more than half way there!

I saw something about your headers before, there Speedforce headers correct? What are you doing with them?

Olli Snellman

Sean, most likely it will be next winters(summer to you) project. Too much work with customer cars just now and junior is also impatient, so more important things first, then i can focus more own projects