Whisper

Ay-firmative.

I'm doing this with an N/A, but I already have the turbo brakes, an upgraded suspension, and I'm putting in a turbo tranny with LSD and oil cooler... so it's basically the same thing as a turbo for these purposes.

One fellow who did this said that's it's important to use the nicest, cleanest car you can find, because after the swap, all the internal stuff is well and truly sorted, and so anything that makes the car less than "nice" (a shabby interior, for example) will really start to bug you.

Jeremy Himsel

I doubt Tone is ducking out....Just doesn’t seem like his style. Kind of reminds me of me in my youth a bit and will go down swinging regardless of the consequences. Unlike the rest of us pathetic run down bastards, he's probably getting laid or driving his car and not paying too much attention to Rennlist. Maybe Rob gave him a time out?

To be perfectly honest, I hope he declines. Not because I think he’ll win or be close but quite the opposite. The last thing anyone needs is for a car to get destroyed or someone to get hurt (who may not even be involved in this debacle) because of some online ribbing. While I have no concerns about me or Tony pushing our cars in traffic (on track), I have some concerns about an inexperienced driver with no real track experience in a heated testosterone challenge. If you are truly a car guy, and actually understand performance vehicles, you will clearly see the difference between the two cars and know what the outcome will be. Slapping on HP and some shocks does not make a vehicle fast.

My first track experience came in the early 90’s at Bondurant in my Mustang. A friend was an instructor there and we would frequent the track at night. A young guy with more ***** than brains, soft suspension, weak brakes, and more HP then the chassis could handle……..What a pathetic mess that was but it taught me valuable lessons about car control and poise. I started DE’s in my 951 (bone stock) about 8 or 9 years ago and it honestly took me some time before I found that I could drive that car at the limit….and more importantly….regain control or minimize the impact when I exceeded it. Once I reached this point the car became painfully boring and the first rounds of upgrades began and again it took me some time to take that car to the limit.

In 2004 I attended spring mountain and spent 3 days flogging ZO6’s and once again it took quite a bit of time before I was comfortable approaching the limits of that car. By the end of it I was about a second off the instructors lap times and was the fastest in the open lapping sessions. In my personal Z, I still get timid around 8/10ths because it’s my daily driver but am fully aware where the limits are and have no problem giving a faster driver or car the point by (actually just room to pass). I don’t think many people, especially noobies around here, understand that and most likely won’t until they get passed in their high HP car by a civic or a 944 spec car. It can be quite humbling your first few times on a track.

So my point to all this………My concern is weather or not Tone will understand these limits and push them too far to save face on an internet web board. The last thing anyone needs is an inexperienced driver who does not understand the limits of his vehicle (on the track) spinning through a corner in front of a group out for some leisurely DE time to save face on a web board. I’d hate it and feel terrible if he smacked up his car or worse, took out someone else. Not really sure there will be very many winners here. Realistically, it will be almost impossible (unless he’s pretty skilled) for him to get signed off to run in an open passing group any time soon and that will be a good thing for him.

Tony, if you really want to get some time in on the tracks out here, let me know and I’ll do a few events with you. You can leave your rig at my place if you want. Hang off until sept/oct and my 951 will be back on the road again is probably pretty closely prepped to your car. My spec car should be going as well and the Z is always available. Hopefully, they’ll re-open Arizona Motorsports Park as it’s a fast, fun, and safe track. I’m not holding my breath on it reopening though.

As for Tone, let’s cut him a bit of slack……He’s probably on the younger side, somewhat inexperienced, and VERY proud of his car. We’ve all been there. To him I offer a few passenger rides on the track or someone to buddy up with at his first track events. If he declines and still wishes to participate in this……..I just sprayed my Z with some fabreeze and primped my mullet so I’m ready to go.

Now…how about we get a few WC rennlisters and rent out http://www.springmountainmotorsports...ck-map-layout/ later this year. It’s under an hour from Vegas and a fun track……I had a blast on it in my 951 as well as in a Z.

333pg333

Good post Jeremy!

Re using the n/a a a doner car:

Whisper, are you planning on doing a dash swapover? The n/a one is just not up to it in view of what you're building.

Assuming all the suspension can be swapped over, is the body itself less well built or structurally rigid than the 951? Can these issues be addressed easily enough?

V2Rocket

oh i know i wouldnt have a snowballs chance in hell of outracing him

i just feel like playing around on a track with a big boomy car against my whiny car. and i think it would be interesting to see how the midrange of the SC compares to the tabletop that is the torque curve of the V8 even if its slower.

im not racing for glory just for fun

Whisper

Possibly. But he seemed to show up pretty frequently up until this point. Pity. The firestorm was keeping me entertained at work.

We'll see. My understanding was that he was going to find a driver?

I was hoping that making the process silly enough (Team Hitler Mustache vs The Mulletmen, etc) would kind of deflate some of the *****-comparison aspect of it, and that if he had someone else driving, there wouldn't be too much opportunity for his lack of impulse control to create trouble for anyone but him.

Youth will be served... often on a bed of rice, with some caramelized onions.

One tries to be reasonably polite with characters like this, but there is a certain danger that, in being too understanding, one allows the behaviour to continue. Humiliating him for trash-talking on a web board might teach him the lesson that saves him from getting curb-stomped in person.

We can understand that young hotheads are going to do stupid things, without necessarily having to let them get away with it.

Of course, I'm too laid back and mellow to get into it with him, but my sympathy over whatever scrape he gets himself into is kinda limited.

Whisper

A *dash* swapover?

Are you talking about what I think you're talking about? Because if you are, that just doesn't seem to make any sense.

It can. Although I'm probably going to do something slightly different there... going to rear coilovers, for one thing.

The frame is actually the same, as is the torque tube.

While turboing your N/A may be ludicrous, a most of the parts that make it that way are the stuff that comes out with the swap. This makes 6.2N/Aing your 2.5N/A a lot more feasible.

Once I remove everything that's going to to be replaced with the swap, there's not going to be a lot left but the rolling body. Same frame, same steering rack, same torque tube, brakes already in, suspension will be redone anyway, and so on.

CPR

Jesus man.

Get a grip.

V2Rocket

dont remember about the regular turbo cars but the 951S for sure had a few extra little bits of frame work done to make it a stiffer platform; if you look in the engine bay of a 951S near the wheel towers youll see little triangular braces welded to the frame rails etc.

TonyG

The little brackets are nominal at best. But even then, it would be trivial to weld in a pair.

The bigger deal is the late offset turbo suspension & brakes, turbo transaxle, turbo bodywork, external oil cooler.


TonyG

333pg333

As for bodywork do you mean the nose/bumper section etc? Why I'm asking is that if I wind up doing a trackcar I might buy a 944 n/a car that has already been stripped and caged. We can change the suspension / motor / drivetrain over etc, many of them out here already have the turbo nose sections and some f/g panels. If I thought the body was more flexible then I'd hesitate.
What is seam welding and how hard is it to do? Is it a worthwhile process and can you do it to a car that is already together or is it something you would do when the body is completely stripped and you'd paint it afterwards?

Whisper, what I meant re the dash swapover was to the oval dash not the old n/a one? Since it sounds like you're going for something special is all I was wondering about.

blown 944

IMO if building a serious track car one should start with a late na and install all the hotrod parts. By the time you get it stripped it is just a tub anyway (same... same).

Why waste another decent 951???

blown 944

seam welding is reinforcing the tack welded sections and yes you would do it stripped if possible.

333pg333

Is it worth doing Sid?

Bri Bro

Contact this guy out of Denver, he might be able to drive the 944 3.0l turbo on a track.
Chris Cervelli
chriscervelli@msn.com


And OMG, 25 pages...

blown 944

^^I think I'm meeting him on Saturday morning.

Patrick, if the cage is built proper (big "IF") I don't see a need for the seam welding unless you are a "do it yourselfer" and just feel like getting it done for the heck of it.