data search - cost to get 500rwhp
02-21-2009, 06:28 PM
#91
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Find some one who has a 300-370 hp 951 and take a ride in it. Then decide how much power you want.
Or find a 944 will and LS engine do the same.
And yes an iron LS engine will mess up the balance. IIRC even an Aluminum one will mess it up to some extent. If you move the battery to the back and move some other small stuff you can regain that 50/50 balance.
BTW where was this $2500 LS if you dont mind me asking. And what vehicle was it out of.
Or find a 944 will and LS engine do the same.
And yes an iron LS engine will mess up the balance. IIRC even an Aluminum one will mess it up to some extent. If you move the battery to the back and move some other small stuff you can regain that 50/50 balance.
BTW where was this $2500 LS if you dont mind me asking. And what vehicle was it out of.
02-22-2009, 03:46 PM
#92
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I'm the kind of guy who would find used parts when possible and clean them up to make something average, this is just a fun project to learn (like all of them i suppose)
no I'm not interested in dumping huge amounts of money like you guys do
I'm the guy who's purchased a running 944 for $550 and a better condition 928 for less.
i think a lot of research goes a long way...
at the moment my take is that if you want 300-400whp go with a 944 turbo setup, if you want more then go with an ls1
i think the real trick is to see how people outside the porsche world do things like the Japanese Ive read about who have little 1.8L's and giving them massive HP and do some of that to the 944...
no I'm not interested in dumping huge amounts of money like you guys do
I'm the guy who's purchased a running 944 for $550 and a better condition 928 for less.
i think a lot of research goes a long way...
at the moment my take is that if you want 300-400whp go with a 944 turbo setup, if you want more then go with an ls1
i think the real trick is to see how people outside the porsche world do things like the Japanese Ive read about who have little 1.8L's and giving them massive HP and do some of that to the 944...
I can tell you that typically larger undertakings usually mean LOTS of little things you didn't intend on and replacing it later will actually cost you more. Its much easier just to replace these natural wear items when the car is torn down rather than later. Buying a 944 for $500.00 doesn't necessarily mean you can't spend 5 grand on a turbo kit and fuel system but, you need to be honest with yourself.
My car is nothing special(aside from the rear end) and I've got 40+ grand in it not including purchase price. I'm willing to bet if you talk around to guys who have built motors, and have the kind of project you are undertaking they are all going to quote you 20+ grand.
Otherwise it won't be reliable. It just won't last. There are rare exceptions to this rule, guys like blown 944 who do ALL their own work and can fab stuff up after morning breakfast. Its nothing for a guy with that kind of "fiddle" experience to boost the hell outta his 944 turbo and then replace things as they break. Because he can do that in a day and even he says he has dialed back his home depot setup for more reliability.
There is NO cheep way to do what you are undertaking. Not one. Start a list of what you really want add a budget then double it for safety's sake, and ask yourself weather or not you can really afford to drive and maintain a car like that.
A 370-400hp 944 turbo is a fast car and would be more than enough for 99% of drivers out there.
02-22-2009, 04:31 PM
#93
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With all due respect how much money/budget are you working with? I have a feeling you are living champagne dreams on a beer budget. You can't budget "500hp" or even 400hp in a 944 turbo. You are going to need to address many issues otherwise your car is just not going to work and when it does you'll spend more time fixing it than driving it. Trust me or ask around lots will tell you the same. When starting a project its important to know exactly what you are after and set a budget guideline accordingly.
I can tell you that typically larger undertakings usually mean LOTS of little things you didn't intend on and replacing it later will actually cost you more. Its much easier just to replace these natural wear items when the car is torn down rather than later. Buying a 944 for $500.00 doesn't necessarily mean you can't spend 5 grand on a turbo kit and fuel system but, you need to be honest with yourself.
My car is nothing special(aside from the rear end) and I've got 40+ grand in it not including purchase price. I'm willing to bet if you talk around to guys who have built motors, and have the kind of project you are undertaking they are all going to quote you 20+ grand.
Otherwise it won't be reliable. It just won't last. There are rare exceptions to this rule, guys like blown 944 who do ALL their own work and can fab stuff up after morning breakfast. Its nothing for a guy with that kind of "fiddle" experience to boost the hell outta his 944 turbo and then replace things as they break. Because he can do that in a day and even he says he has dialed back his home depot setup for more reliability.
There is NO cheep way to do what you are undertaking. Not one. Start a list of what you really want add a budget then double it for safety's sake, and ask yourself weather or not you can really afford to drive and maintain a car like that.
A 370-400hp 944 turbo is a fast car and would be more than enough for 99% of drivers out there.
I can tell you that typically larger undertakings usually mean LOTS of little things you didn't intend on and replacing it later will actually cost you more. Its much easier just to replace these natural wear items when the car is torn down rather than later. Buying a 944 for $500.00 doesn't necessarily mean you can't spend 5 grand on a turbo kit and fuel system but, you need to be honest with yourself.
My car is nothing special(aside from the rear end) and I've got 40+ grand in it not including purchase price. I'm willing to bet if you talk around to guys who have built motors, and have the kind of project you are undertaking they are all going to quote you 20+ grand.
Otherwise it won't be reliable. It just won't last. There are rare exceptions to this rule, guys like blown 944 who do ALL their own work and can fab stuff up after morning breakfast. Its nothing for a guy with that kind of "fiddle" experience to boost the hell outta his 944 turbo and then replace things as they break. Because he can do that in a day and even he says he has dialed back his home depot setup for more reliability.
There is NO cheep way to do what you are undertaking. Not one. Start a list of what you really want add a budget then double it for safety's sake, and ask yourself weather or not you can really afford to drive and maintain a car like that.
A 370-400hp 944 turbo is a fast car and would be more than enough for 99% of drivers out there.
if you want more then that then you should go with an ls1/lsx/lt1 swap and start with a $2000 or cheaper 944na. (still under $10k for 400whp if you build the engine yourself and source quality used parts and do all the work yourself based on real builds that have been done by people at porschehybrids.com)
the expense comes from when you try to make the 944 engine make over 350whp which from all my research since buying my first 944 in 1999 it wont ever do reliably without TONS of money and paying a shop $5k to paint your car which i would never do, and buy all kinds of things like lindsey racing parts and blow off valves that cost $500 - $3k a piece instead of being a little creative
here's two ways i might go:
1) buy a nice 951 and put a vitesse kit on it and be done with it
2) buy a cheap 944na and put an ls1/lsx in it and all kinds of cheap and free used parts like brakes and suspension (you can get a ls1 for $1900 right now on cragslist with low miles and another for $900 with low miles too) this will get you a 400whp 944 for around $7-$10k, but not if you pay people to do things for you. it might not be as perfect and pretty as some of the $30,000 944's but as you said 400whp is more than enough for 99% of all drivers.
02-22-2009, 04:37 PM
#95
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here's two ways i might go:
1) buy a nice 951 and put a vitesse kit on it and be done with it
2) buy a cheap 944na and put an ls1/lsx in it and all kinds of cheap and free used parts like brakes and suspension (you can get a ls1 for $1900 right now on cragslist with low miles and another for $900 with low miles too) this will get you a 400whp 944 for around $7-$10k, but not if you pay people to do things for you. it might not be as perfect and pretty as some of the $30,000 944's but as you said 400whp is more than enough for 99% of all drivers.
1) buy a nice 951 and put a vitesse kit on it and be done with it
2) buy a cheap 944na and put an ls1/lsx in it and all kinds of cheap and free used parts like brakes and suspension (you can get a ls1 for $1900 right now on cragslist with low miles and another for $900 with low miles too) this will get you a 400whp 944 for around $7-$10k, but not if you pay people to do things for you. it might not be as perfect and pretty as some of the $30,000 944's but as you said 400whp is more than enough for 99% of all drivers.
Few people on this board even make that much power. Check the top HP list. Most guys run far less power than that and are pretty happy with their setups. Keeping the horsepower expectations down will dramatically reduce the cost of a project and wear/tear of the car itself.
02-22-2009, 04:37 PM
#96
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you can get 350whp car with a stock 951 and a vitesse kit, that costs under $10k total...
if you want more then that then you should go with an ls1/lsx/lt1 swap and start with a $2000 or cheaper 944na. (still under $10k for 400whp if you build the engine yourself and source quality used parts and do all the work yourself based on real builds that have been done by people at porschehybrids.com)
the expense comes from when you try to make the 944 engine make over 350whp which from all my research since buying my first 944 in 1999 it wont ever do reliably without TONS of money and paying a shop $5k to paint your car which i would never do, and buy all kinds of things like lindsey racing parts and blow off valves that cost $500 - $3k a piece instead of being a little creative
here's two ways i might go:
1) buy a nice 951 and put a vitesse kit on it and be done with it
2) buy a cheap 944na and put an ls1/lsx in it and all kinds of cheap and free used parts like brakes and suspension (you can get a ls1 for $1900 right now on cragslist with low miles and another for $900 with low miles too) this will get you a 400whp 944 for around $7-$10k, but not if you pay people to do things for you. it might not be as perfect and pretty as some of the $30,000 944's but as you said 400whp is more than enough for 99% of all drivers.
if you want more then that then you should go with an ls1/lsx/lt1 swap and start with a $2000 or cheaper 944na. (still under $10k for 400whp if you build the engine yourself and source quality used parts and do all the work yourself based on real builds that have been done by people at porschehybrids.com)
the expense comes from when you try to make the 944 engine make over 350whp which from all my research since buying my first 944 in 1999 it wont ever do reliably without TONS of money and paying a shop $5k to paint your car which i would never do, and buy all kinds of things like lindsey racing parts and blow off valves that cost $500 - $3k a piece instead of being a little creative
here's two ways i might go:
1) buy a nice 951 and put a vitesse kit on it and be done with it
2) buy a cheap 944na and put an ls1/lsx in it and all kinds of cheap and free used parts like brakes and suspension (you can get a ls1 for $1900 right now on cragslist with low miles and another for $900 with low miles too) this will get you a 400whp 944 for around $7-$10k, but not if you pay people to do things for you. it might not be as perfect and pretty as some of the $30,000 944's but as you said 400whp is more than enough for 99% of all drivers.
Ahhh, I see you are back
I'll be more than happy to trade you some "free" parts for a sack of that chronic you have been partaking in.
I'll send you my ship to address.....
02-22-2009, 04:38 PM
#97
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a 944na will needs LOTS of suspension work to handle the power, as would a 951, but a bit less.
There is no such thing as a CHEAP solution to your question. PERIOD.
There is no such thing as a CHEAP solution to your question. PERIOD.
02-22-2009, 04:40 PM
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02-22-2009, 04:42 PM
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what do you need? stiffer springs ($400) stiffer torsion bar ($???) i hear its a pain to reindex this.
02-22-2009, 04:54 PM
#100
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t-bars..springs...swaybars...bushings...HD shocks...big brakes...castor blocks for bigger wheels if you choose...trannies getting shredded...cv's and axles snapping...
02-22-2009, 04:56 PM
#101
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Considering this is your third thread in as many weeks on how to make 700HP, then how to build a 600HP race car clone for the street and now this one about making 400hp via the 2.5 OR 500hp + use an LS1....it all makes little sense to me(?).
You have asked for the boards advice, then upon receipt, you lay claim to being able to build one with "used" or "free" parts for next to nothing...pretty much exclaiming along the way that those who have proferred their advice on you behalf are "full of ****", because you ca do it this way or that.....strange.
Why don't you just build it, docmument it, the post it....since you already seem to be in the know.
FYI...it helps to own one first.
02-22-2009, 05:10 PM
#102
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ROFL! Junk yard parts aren't even in the galaxy of what is necessary for that kind of power. I won't go into chassis flex and overall stresses to the rest of the car. Do a search. There are volumes on this, including a few of my threads. There is...NO WAY TO DO THIS CHEAPLY! PERIOD!
02-22-2009, 06:40 PM
#104
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he has a picture of my car for his avatar here: http://pcarz.com/j944
02-22-2009, 06:41 PM
#105
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That's rich...putting down the 951 on a 951 Forum....
Considering this is your third thread in as many weeks on how to make 700HP, then how to build a 600HP race car clone for the street and now this one about making 400hp via the 2.5 OR 500hp + use an LS1....it all makes little sense to me(?).
You have asked for the boards advice, then upon receipt, you lay claim to being able to build one with "used" or "free" parts for next to nothing...pretty much exclaiming along the way that those who have proferred their advice on you behalf are "full of ****", because you ca do it this way or that.....strange.
Why don't you just build it, docmument it, the post it....since you already seem to be in the know.
FYI...it helps to own one first.
Considering this is your third thread in as many weeks on how to make 700HP, then how to build a 600HP race car clone for the street and now this one about making 400hp via the 2.5 OR 500hp + use an LS1....it all makes little sense to me(?).
You have asked for the boards advice, then upon receipt, you lay claim to being able to build one with "used" or "free" parts for next to nothing...pretty much exclaiming along the way that those who have proferred their advice on you behalf are "full of ****", because you ca do it this way or that.....strange.
Why don't you just build it, docmument it, the post it....since you already seem to be in the know.
FYI...it helps to own one first.