porshhhh951

I have absolutely never heard of our heads having a problem with E-85. You will need to find a way to run the adequate additional fuel but, other than that its pretty much touch and go from what I've seen.

333pg333

Looks very similar to a head off my motor recently. White valves and what we believe was headlift. Cometic h/g resealed and got me home from the track and then some after that! Amazing. I've been seeing higher boost though. Up to 1.5bar. I wonder if these motors in stock form can take this sort of psi for any duration?
I've also been trying to get my afrs into the low 11's / high 10's but I wonder if this isn't a bit rich even at WOT / high rpms?

Duke

Exhaust valves tend to always look like that.

95ONE

Sooooooooo tired of crap information like that. If you soak the head and valves in E-85. for a year or longer, Maybe. Your coolant is doing much more damage than this fuel ever will. And for E-85 to be harmful, some moisture / water must be present. And that is completey avoidable. I can go on, and on.. but I really just want to sum it all up with.. The "know it alls" clarly don't know it all. If it is truly a project, go prove them wrong, but apparently there's so much more you need to study up on. Hard to find any useful info though. Clear conspiracy.

spoolin51

Bruce, Perhaps some listers are shareholders of crude oil. LOL
E85 is the SHT.

blown 944

That's a little rich it will run fine but just slightly down on power. If the ait, egt's, afr, and knock are kept in check I don't see why they won't when using a good HG.

I LOVE Ethanol.....

etiennekuh

and the engine will only have 300 crank HP. So why should you even thing of changing the valve guides and seats. The project leader alsow said he heard that the engine would bend in the axial direction with 350+ HP . Back on the head, I think they don`t know the basics of a combustion engine, if the exhaust temp. get`s to high you are running lean, keep adding fuel and the temp. drops, but don`t go to rich. I said to them. then my buddy said if you raise the boost the temp. go's up again, so you would blow the engine up..... Just ad fuel I said, just ad fuel. I don't understand why they could hire my project leader as head of engine dynamics

67King

Two problems with E85 and valvetrain. One affects the intake valve, the other, the exhaust. First, the exhaust. Gasoline contains naturally lubricating components that make the exhaust valve less prone to wear. Yes, I mean exhaust. No, I don't understand it, I just saw it when I was working on a Flex Fuel application (used to do engine development at Ford), and the fuel experts knew about the properties. Anyway, we used Inconel valves and Brico valve seats. They were hard enough to give us long term durability. There were 8 exhaust valves, not just four, and the applications were in the neighborhood of 300 horsepower. Just since that was brought up.

The other issue was much less frequent, but it had to be addressed. Ethanol can lean into the crevice between the intake valve seat, and the cylinder head. When it does, it will attack the valve seat, and cause corrosion. Considering where that happens, the concern is that the seat can come out. Much more minor issue, but very real.

Having said all of that.......this was an OEM application, with very tough durability requirements. I don't want to get sidetracked, as I'm sure that has some of you scratching your head. But, Ford has incredibly tough engine durability requirements, especially for trucks.

Stoich for E85 is closer to 9:1. 11-ish:1 is still WAY lean. LBT (Leanest mixture for Best Torque) on a gasoline engine is usually around 12.5-13.0:1, but turbos usually run more rich for durability. I'm not positive on this point, but I believe that E85 engines run best at stoich, rather than rich.

blown 944

~.78 lambda is what we are referring to, just to be clear. The conversion factors sometimes cause confusion.

Ethanol is best rich not right at stoich from my experience, unless you are looking for best mileage.

I haven't seen any problems with valve seats or valves and I have had 3 engines (porsche) apart that have been run on e 85 for over a year each. One was run for 3 years as a DD

CarbonRevo

Going to be glued to this thread from here on out. I'll be another person making the switch to E-85. My closest station is 22 miles from my house. Luckily I work a half mile away. Kansas city region has 3 pumps total I believe, but the fact I work by a station is awesome.

My main concern is just when there's some 93 and some E-85 mixed in the tank. I'd HATE to have to run STRICTLY E-85. Like if I'm on a road trip and there aren't any pumps around...I want to be able to run 93 with no problems. Will I have to re-tune the car in this scenario?

333pg333

So if we look at the stoich value at somewhere between 8 & 9, what is the lambda at those afrs? I feel like there is some sluggishness at certain parts running in the high 10s but that also could be my present map. Needs some attention.
So when running E85, are we to expect the valves to always look chalky white as if it's been running really lean?

333pg333

You will need some way of changing between maps. SMT6 or the like. Then you can plug your laptop in and switch it over. You could even have a switch made up.

67King

A friend of mine with a beater Saab (80's 900 Turbo) just swapped out injectors, and ran E85. That was it. I suppose just swapping them out if you get in a bind would be another way to do it.

333pg333

You need way more fuel than a normal pump gas map. So it's not just a matter of swapping in larger injs. If you do that....engine go boom.

CarbonRevo

So essentially, to run E-85 absolutely worry free...I'll need to carry a laptop with me wherever I may go?

Acer and other companies have some very nice mini-laptops out now for only a few hundred dollars. I also have an AT&T air card, so Internet anywhere essentially. I have seen quite a few E-85 guys in the KC area using these mini's. Would it be possible to wire up a switch though?