A.Wayne

no per cylinder .... or 500 bhp /L

Yes !

Precisely , the fuel is also heavily affected by temp and humidity and at the extreme end it goes unstable in a second ... the steam will come out ..

Yes, if not making adjustment this way , you will have running issues..

V2Rocket

like what? due to alcohol variance or just because of water content?

i dont expect there to be too much variance in my region for fuel blends, considering the climate is pretty stable year round. temps range from 50 in the winter to 110 in the summer, and on average its usually right about 80* and not really humid.

also i am thinking i might switch between ethanol and gas anyways, like in the wintertime going with gas and a lower boost pulley, and maybe the cooler air can make up for it a bit

Rogue_Ant

Spencer, you tune for summer-blend (85% ethanol), then even if you get shorted a little ethanol, the your AFR will simply go a little richer. Plenty of us have been running E85 for years without issue. (and have owned or tuned said 250hp/l engines)

V2Rocket

thats the plan, i really dont think there will be much variance in blends in this area. we have seasons, they go like this.

sunny and warm
sunny and hot
sunny and comfortable
3 weeks of rain.

A.Wayne

Hello Spencer ,

Let me clarify , i was discussing E85 at the extreme end ( 500BHP/L) , @ 325 whp (130 whp /L) you will not suffer much from the variance in the fuel i had mention. In actuality that number is easily achievable with 93 pump gas so running e85 is just to say you do and really not worth it at such a low power level...

You will still need the sensor to flex -fuel, you can write the logs to convert . Check zietronix they have a e-85 display and senr kit .


Regards,

333pg333

1500bhp on 93 pump for a 3L turbo. Nice...be an interesting ign chart.

951_RS

So after reading the thread I see people recommend running an AFR of 11-11.5:1 with e85.
I'm assuming this is using a wideband set for gasoline with the knowledge that it's actually much richer with e85, correct?

This is an excerpt from another forum:
"To get an accurate AFR reading you need to switch the meter to Lambda or equivalence ratio setting rather than AFR. Most O2 sensors assume you are running gasoline and will report a stoichiometric mixture as 14.7:1 which is the proper value for gasoline. E85 has a Stoichiometric mixture of between 9.7 - 10:1 and a max power mixture of about 6.98-8.5:1 or so, where with gasoline it is 12.5:1-to 13.1.

If you must use an O2 sensor that only reports gasoline AFR information simply divide the numbers it reports by 1.47 - 1.50.

On gasoline, my ECU is supposed to give a mixture of 11.5:1 and on 100% E85 the dyno's wide band reported an AFR of 11.6:1. That means that my true AFR on the E85 was about 7.8:1 which is right in the middle of max power mixtures for E85."

So in short, I plan to switch to e85 later this month after purchasing a walbro 255 pump. I have 72 lb injectors and plan to run 22-23 psi on my current turbo in my sig. If I leave my wideband as is I will be looking for low to mid 11 AFR's on the gauge and if i switch it to lambda then I'll be looking for 0.78-0.79 or so I think it was. Though in reality I will be running closer to 7.8:1 actual AFR.

Edited: Just ordered socket booster to use with ostrich and tunerpro to control timing, etc

Rogue_Ant

Yes, just keep your WBO2 scaled for gas, and tune to mid/low 11's for full boost.

Also, a cam gear will not effect ignition timing. The only way to add timing is with the DME.


-Rogue

951_RS

Yeah I have no idea why I said I'd advance timing with the cam gears, way too early in the morning for coherent thought I guess.
Just edited my post...

Anyways, I found a local tuner with ostrich so I think I just need to buy the socket booster and download tunerpro software to be able to advance timing.
I made around 350 whp on a mustang dyno using a 93/104 octane blend at 22.5 psi, so I imagine with e85 I should be able to run around the same psi and be near that in power. Is it safe to assume the 72# injectors (small in the e85 world, I know) would be sufficient for running e85 at this relatively low power level?
I'm assuming also that the stock fuel pump can not handle this job.

gt37vgt

if you don't have them yet try get modern injectors like bosche EV14's or seimens deka's most of them have 5 bar rating as well so if you get greedy and run out of injector you can get a rising rate reg and have another 10lb of injector .
I think the standard pump is rated at about 2.5lt per minute @ 3 bar so thats ok for #72 injectors up to about 85% duty cycle ..
so if the pump is in good shape .. its JUST enough but it wouldn't be adequate to try push more out of the 72#'s with increased fuel pressure .
I think 72's are good for about 400whp on e85 but not compleatly confident .....Josh ?

alxdgr8

72's are close to maxing on pump at 400whp. I'd say you'd need larger than 72's if you want to hit 400whp on E85

95ONE

83lbers were at the limit for me at 420whp. (80% duty cycle) So i moved to 95lbers.

951_RS

Well then I guess I'll need to look at larger injectors then. I just got these too, oh well.
I plan to buy a new pump so that's covered.

333pg333

Just to cover off something else. So if we assume that E85 will vary through the year in terms of how much
Ethanol there is in the mix should we all be running those fuel sensors somewhere along the line?
What do those fuel sensors do with the information? Can they talk to a piggy back or ECU / Standalone?
Can these then adj timing or boost depending on the read?

gt37vgt

i think they only tell the ethanol content the computer or guy with switch would then have to make an usumption or hypothesis about calorific and octane numbers and then modify the map...
I want to be very flexible with fuel types but i would still prefer to spend up on a safeguard system first