Knock counting, What's good
07-20-2009, 12:34 PM
#166
Rennlist Member
Knock sensor is under the intake, on the head I believe
http://www.skycraftsurplus.com/index...OD&ProdID=1001
wired to KLR pin 15
http://www.skycraftsurplus.com/index...OD&ProdID=1001
wired to KLR pin 15
07-20-2009, 12:44 PM
#167
Race Car
from my understanding the knock sensor input is not a strong enough signal to get the counter to read. The output on pin 15 is simpler and an on off voltage. That is where I tapped into to get counts.
Does anyone now for sure what the voltage spikes are though( out of pin 15). I am thinking that I may try to use the extra input on the Zeitronix if it is strong enough
Does anyone now for sure what the voltage spikes are though( out of pin 15). I am thinking that I may try to use the extra input on the Zeitronix if it is strong enough
07-20-2009, 01:10 PM
#168
Three Wheelin'
from my understanding the knock sensor input is not a strong enough signal to get the counter to read. The output on pin 15 is simpler and an on off voltage. That is where I tapped into to get counts.
Does anyone now for sure what the voltage spikes are though( out of pin 15). I am thinking that I may try to use the extra input on the Zeitronix if it is strong enough
Does anyone now for sure what the voltage spikes are though( out of pin 15). I am thinking that I may try to use the extra input on the Zeitronix if it is strong enough
07-20-2009, 02:49 PM
#170
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
You cant really log the sensor directly, regardless of the voltage it puts out. Its a microphone with a bolt hole through it, you need circuitry to filter the signal to get the actual knock, otherwise youll get a LOT of false spikes from things like valvetrain noise.
A cheap one is here http://www.viatrack.ca/ it puts out a signal that should be countable. I have an unused one if anyone wants to buy it.
The J&S units are very good from all that I have read, but they are geared for acting like a piggyback. When they sense knock then can pull timing a bit. They are a modern, purple colored KLR in other words. They are also expensive beasts, $600USD from what I remember.
I use a Link KnockBlock http://www.linkecu.com/products/Anci...ces/KnockBlock same thing that Special Tool and others use. Also expensive (less than J&S) but utterly fantastic. I could do the hammer tapping on the block and watch it trigger, and if I set it to do so, hear the MegaSquirt pull the the timing. This one also has a headphone output so you can listen to what its picking up (valves ticking, lifters, theres the whine of the cam belt, the whole lot. Quite neat to listen to on the stereo as you drive along if you have an Aux input like mine
)
This could be for sale later this summer, im debating going with a Link G4 Extreme or a ViPEC V88 both of which have the KnockBlock built in. Still trying to decide. I will post. Dave at CEP is a supplier for these.
There are others as well, like Phormula, that get good reviews.
A cheap one is here http://www.viatrack.ca/ it puts out a signal that should be countable. I have an unused one if anyone wants to buy it.
The J&S units are very good from all that I have read, but they are geared for acting like a piggyback. When they sense knock then can pull timing a bit. They are a modern, purple colored KLR in other words. They are also expensive beasts, $600USD from what I remember.
I use a Link KnockBlock http://www.linkecu.com/products/Anci...ces/KnockBlock same thing that Special Tool and others use. Also expensive (less than J&S) but utterly fantastic. I could do the hammer tapping on the block and watch it trigger, and if I set it to do so, hear the MegaSquirt pull the the timing. This one also has a headphone output so you can listen to what its picking up (valves ticking, lifters, theres the whine of the cam belt, the whole lot. Quite neat to listen to on the stereo as you drive along if you have an Aux input like mine
) This could be for sale later this summer, im debating going with a Link G4 Extreme or a ViPEC V88 both of which have the KnockBlock built in. Still trying to decide. I will post. Dave at CEP is a supplier for these.
There are others as well, like Phormula, that get good reviews.
07-20-2009, 05:34 PM
#171
Rennlist Member
Brian, hope your recent maladies with the motor weren't knock related?
07-20-2009, 05:57 PM
#172
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Im pulling the engine out right now, so I should have pics of whats wrong soon
The maybe selling the Link KnockBlock is because I might be getting a ViPEC V88 which has it built in.
07-20-2009, 07:48 PM
#173
Rennlist Member
Ok.
07-21-2009, 01:56 PM
#174
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The ViPEC is a rebadged Link G4 Extreme. The Extreme is getting knock control per cylinde so, I wouldn't be to quick to buy a knock off(pun intended). Link will always have the free updates before ViPec. Link will soon have true traction control too. Check out their site for monthly updates.
07-21-2009, 02:56 PM
#175
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
The ViPEC is a rebadged Link G4 Extreme. The Extreme is getting knock control per cylinde so, I wouldn't be to quick to buy a knock off(pun intended). Link will always have the free updates before ViPec. Link will soon have true traction control too. Check out their site for monthly updates.
07-24-2009, 12:20 PM
#176
Instructor
I think Rogue is working with someone using a stock car and a knock counter with some timing variation?? You may want to PM him.
Myself I am still only seeing 1 max in a single gear pull. (This is w/o the hobbs switch activation)
I will get a couple just pulling out of the driveway and a couple taking off from a light and some bs low load counts.
I was working on a new configuration so I elected to leave the pressure threshold out of the equation and man it racks em up much quicker. It went from a count of less than 200 to many thousand since. I will be wiring the pressure and activation (power supply) back up shortly and getting another counter.
Myself I am still only seeing 1 max in a single gear pull. (This is w/o the hobbs switch activation)
I will get a couple just pulling out of the driveway and a couple taking off from a light and some bs low load counts.
I was working on a new configuration so I elected to leave the pressure threshold out of the equation and man it racks em up much quicker. It went from a count of less than 200 to many thousand since. I will be wiring the pressure and activation (power supply) back up shortly and getting another counter.
Where did you get the Hobbs pressure switch from?
07-24-2009, 12:51 PM
#178
Nordschleife Master
Pin 15 is actually the KLR output to the diagnostic port, but it is the knock output... if looking for adding a knock counter you only need to know which one, and where to connect it to, not all the other bits... Right?
07-24-2009, 02:04 PM
#179
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I bought the Curtis counter but am looking for one that is resetable and backlit. I may try soldering a surface mount resistor to make it resetable but still it's not backlit so not sure it's worth the effort.
I might sell the one I made and make my own LED counter/display board to put in place of the ODO.
07-24-2009, 02:13 PM
#180
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For those running the knock counter, have you tried to induce knock by tapping on the engine block? If so, please explain in details what you did.
My main concern with any knock display (or control) system is how do you test and verify the proper operation of such system.
My main concern with any knock display (or control) system is how do you test and verify the proper operation of such system.
I haven't yet tried tapping with a screwdriver/hammer on the engine but I would think a good knock sensing system would be able to distinguish that frequency from engine "ping".