Geneqco

85% Ethanol

Rogue_Ant

Yep


Rogue

lleroyb

Peter, that would be great. Could you ask him? I would deliver the counter.

Lou

cpt_koolbeenz

Okay, after a trip to NM last weekend, my knock counts are getting out of control... I am running ~15 PSI, fairly good AFR's (<12.5 WOT), running GURU chips with -3 deg retard. I didn't change anything since my last report of ~10 per WOT run. During the trip, my counts were significantly higher ~10-50 per WOT run (4th & 5th gears). The ambient temps were ~85-95 that day. Everything else was perfect with the car.

It seemed like samluke got fewer counts using his new knock sensor... Is that true?

Rogue_Ant

Chris - 12.5 is too lean - I run ~11.5 under WOT. Also, remember that dropping in altitude is pretty much the same as rasing boost...


Rogue

cpt_koolbeenz

Yeah I am around 11.5 ish... I said <12.5 but more like <12.
I will do some data logging to make sure...

Rogue_Ant

Dude, we seriously need to get together and get that thing tuned to a T. I walked a supercharged WS6 Trans-Am about a week ago - you should be right there with me.


Rogue

Pauerman

Just wanted to add to this thread...

I've been logging the KLR's pin 15 for the past month through my piggyback. My datalogger has a fast enough processor to capture anything that that the KLR will throw at it. Also, at any instance of knock in my datalog I'm able to reference what boost pressure, TPS position, RPM and AFR that occur at or near each event. So, given the knock issues that Samluke and others are experiencing, I want to say that with 91 pump gas I see very similar knock counts with my car at the boost settings posted.

I'm wondering how much ignition advance guys are running when they get their high knock counts. I'm really loving my MAXTRONIC/MATUNE set up because I'm able to see and manipulate my part throttle and WOT timing / fuel maps on the fly. In order for my car to have a few knock counts at 15 psi, I've had to really retard my timing. With more aggressive timing, I can only run up to 12 psi without any knock issues. I know my car is capable of making a bunch more power, but the ****ty gas is really hindering its potential.

I wish more guys would log the KLR knock output cause I've been scratching my head about whether the knock activity I'm seeing is normal.

lleroyb

I am still experimenting with fuel. It looks like if I use six gallons of 101 octane in a full tank I either don't don't see any knock or maybe one count. The stock boost gauge is pegged. A few weeks ago I installed a temporary boost gauge. The boost went just a liitle past 15psi then controlled to just below. I have no reason to think today was different. I hit about 5500 in third with no counts. I have too much fear of the law to just go out and run up to redline in fourth.

To me it seems like air temp is a big factor too. I will know more after this winter.

Lou

Pauerman

Lou,

At an average outside temp of 100 degrees here in AZ, I'm able to run 12-13 lbs of boost "safely" on pump gas. At this boost, my timing has to be dialed down to only 22.5-23 degrees of advance between 3000-6500 RPM in my WOT map. If I turn up the boost any higher with these timing settings, I start to see knock.

I've spoken with guys who have timing control on their cars and they are able to run upwards of 27-28 degrees of advance in the same RPM range on 91 pump gas. Hearing feeback like this has me wondering if I've got an issue with my car. Can the high outside temp be what's causing my knock issues? I'll be adding some Toulene to my tank once I use up a bit more gas - should be interesting to see the results.

lleroyb

I am also wondering if something is wrong but I sure can't find anything. I dyno'd the car at 87deg. F inlet air temp and got 252 HP. Previously I put down 263 HP. I don't know exactly what the IA temp was but the first run was in January. You can say what you want about temperature compensation but no one can convince me the intercooler is not being impacted by the warmer air temp.

If you are running a bigger turbo with the stock intercooler that might be a place to look.

I run two small gas turbines at work and at 32 deg F. they make about 4600 HP. At 85 deg F. they make about 3900 HP. They have a sophisticated computer control system so it is not "tuning" that makes the difference. Talk about forced induction, the compressor section takes the inlet air from just below atmosphere to 140 psig. That is what I call boost!

Please post if you find something wrong with the car.

Lou

Bri Bro

Ran into an interesting link while looking at the J&S unit.
http://www.team-integra.net/forum/di...g+Common+Topic

samluke

I have given up counting knock and trying to decide what it means. My car is still exactly the same ie it hits hard and then drops back after 3s. I can get it back if I lift and re-apply throttle.

I just came back from a race weekend at Brainerd, where I was getting approx 3,000 counts per day.

Its infuriating, but I have given up trying to fix it ,and have leaned to lift on the straights to bring it back.

Oddjob

R.B.,

I was going to get in touch with you after the race, to ask you how your car (boost) was running through the wknd.

What fuel are/were you running?

At my last DE event, I was running APE chips with 92 pump gas, and got around 12,000 knock counts. At the Club Race, I was running the Escort/Cup chips with 100 octane straight, and got about 1,500 knock counts. And I definitely put on more miles, drove it harder, and it was hotter out for the race, than the previous DE. So, some combination of the octane, and chip/ignition mapping seems to affect the knock counting (assuming the curtis signal counter is accurately tracking the actual KLR to DME knock signal). So I guess the question is, how many knock counts does it take for the DME to start retarding timing and the KLR to start dropping boost? Maybe about 3 seconds worth....?

Even with your dropping boost, seemed like your car still had plenty of pull; didnt seem to be lacking power down the long front straight.

Im skeptical that my car is making the power it should for a D car. It runs quite a bit of boost with the Escort/Cup chips, but I wasnt pulling any on the E and D class 964s or your car, and maybe only a car length on J.R.'s S2. The #23 D-class Turbo Cup/Escort car yanked me pretty good on the straight - he could pass me clean, even when I had a 2-3 car length lead coming out of 10. He is running about 15psi peak, which is what my car is making, but his sure pulled harder.

All in all, good race wknd. And you ran very well for your first time at BIR. Typically, it takes guys awhile to build up speed in Turn 1 and 2, but you picked it up quick - and both you and J.R. were running some very impressive times for E cars. Great job. Hope you can make it up to BIR again next year.

Pauerman

Wow, 12,000 knock counts! You'd think with that much knock activity that the KLR must be pulling timing to protect the engine. Maybe that's why you feel like your car is down on power compared to others on the track.

I sure would like to know how many knock counts it takes for the KLR to start to pull timing. In my datalogs, I see 1-1.5 volt knock spikes at 12-13 psi but at 14-15 the knock spikes increase to upwards of 3 volts. Funny thing is is that none of the knock activity is audible and none of my knock spikes are back to back - there're usually separated by few hundred RPM. I've recorded some of the erratic and consistant knock activity and this is usually the knock you can hear. I wish I knew that the knock I'm seeing is "normal".