Knock counting, What's good
01-11-2011, 02:54 PM
#226
Nordschleife Master
Hmm, just to correct this. I've been doing the DIY stuff for quite some time now, including 951s, 3000GT, DSMs, ect.
Yes, my last engine died - BUT that was an NA engine that I turboed. I knew when I installed it that it would have a finite life. The NA internals simply are not strong enough to survive 350rwhp.
I've since built and installed a 2.5L, back to using turbo internals, and I have around 4000miles already on it - I do expect this motor to live for a long time at ~400rwhp.
That said, the SafeGuard by J&S is a great unit - I've personally ran it (not on a 951), and it does what it claims. However, the KLR is also a good unit - and it was designed specifically to detect knock on our cars. In fact, the KLR is what John @ J&S used as a model to build the SafeGuards.
I still use the KLR pin #15 for knock monitoring, and I tune for <3 counts per gear. As you can see in my thread here showing the NA internals from the deceased engine, there was no signs of knock at all - and this NA engine lived as a DD for ~9months on 18psi of boost.
The DME/KLR hardware is not a bad piece. Rather, the software is what needs updating...
Yes, my last engine died - BUT that was an NA engine that I turboed. I knew when I installed it that it would have a finite life. The NA internals simply are not strong enough to survive 350rwhp.
I've since built and installed a 2.5L, back to using turbo internals, and I have around 4000miles already on it - I do expect this motor to live for a long time at ~400rwhp.
That said, the SafeGuard by J&S is a great unit - I've personally ran it (not on a 951), and it does what it claims. However, the KLR is also a good unit - and it was designed specifically to detect knock on our cars. In fact, the KLR is what John @ J&S used as a model to build the SafeGuards.
I still use the KLR pin #15 for knock monitoring, and I tune for <3 counts per gear. As you can see in my thread here showing the NA internals from the deceased engine, there was no signs of knock at all - and this NA engine lived as a DD for ~9months on 18psi of boost.
The DME/KLR hardware is not a bad piece. Rather, the software is what needs updating...
And Yes the DME and KLR ARE decent, and were WAY ahead of their time..
BUT
At some point the updating of the DME/KLR structure departs tham from actually still being a DME and KLR... Im not against anyone doing it, or using a home built meggasquirt setup... but all things have their limits, up sides and downsides...
And for a user community that puts air filters directly behind the radiator, cheaps out on spark plugs and wires, and any number of other odd behaviours.. expecting them to be able to correctly re-engineer the DME and KLR hardware or software and have it be reliable, safe, or long lasting is asking a bit much IMHO...
01-15-2011, 07:09 AM
#227
Should damp conditions significantly increase the potential for knock?
Took the car for a drive sunday, no knock whatsoever, took it out this morning, didn't change anything, same fuel, weather more damp, now it's knocking like mad under WOT. *sigh*
Took the car for a drive sunday, no knock whatsoever, took it out this morning, didn't change anything, same fuel, weather more damp, now it's knocking like mad under WOT. *sigh*
01-15-2011, 08:56 AM
#228
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Damp weather may be causing other electrical issues….
01-15-2011, 12:10 PM
#230
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Thom,
So what did change between Sunday and now? If wet conditions are causing electrical issues, some sensor(s) signal(s) may be off. Did you check your grounds?
Is it possible something is malfunctioning and it just happened to be humid outside?
Are you running the appropriate maps for the fuel in use?
So what did change between Sunday and now? If wet conditions are causing electrical issues, some sensor(s) signal(s) may be off. Did you check your grounds?
Is it possible something is malfunctioning and it just happened to be humid outside?
Are you running the appropriate maps for the fuel in use?
05-16-2011, 10:11 PM
#231
Rennlist Member
Installed a Hobbs Switch on the Curtis Knock Counter and thought I would show a couple pics. Thanks to Blown944 (Sid) for sharing this option to prevent knock counts when at low load. Installed a micro switch so that the Hobbs can be bypassed to allow all counts will be captured. Hobbs Switch is open until about 5 psi boost (it is adjustable).
Hobbs Switch: Napa Part No. 701-1575
Cost: about $30
Hobbs Switch: Napa Part No. 701-1575
Cost: about $30
05-16-2011, 10:22 PM
#232
Rennlist Member
Anyone know what the difference is between this pressure switch and a Hobb's switch? I always thought they were one in the same, but these are the type I've used in the past. Haven't used the "big" one before.
05-19-2011, 01:12 PM
#233
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05-19-2011, 03:33 PM
#235
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Installed a Hobbs Switch on the Curtis Knock Counter and thought I would show a couple pics. Thanks to Blown944 (Sid) for sharing this option to prevent knock counts when at low load. Installed a micro switch so that the Hobbs can be bypassed to allow all counts will be captured. Hobbs Switch is open until about 5 psi boost (it is adjustable).
Hobbs Switch: Napa Part No. 701-1575
Cost: about $30
Hobbs Switch: Napa Part No. 701-1575
Cost: about $30
Nice install!!
10-05-2019, 01:34 AM
#239
If you have the part number or can post those instructions, I'm sure we can sort it, especially since the terminals are marked. See, e.g., this datasheet:
https://www.redlion.net/sites/defaul...t%20Manual.pdf
That said, the pulses it will detect are not likely the same as the Curtis counter everyone was using, so your results may not be comparable to others. It looks like it may operate in two modes, one of which may be looking for signals that are too long and the other for signals that are too short. It looks like Digikey still sells the Curtis counter -- so maybe just get one of those for $24?...
https://www.redlion.net/sites/defaul...t%20Manual.pdf
That said, the pulses it will detect are not likely the same as the Curtis counter everyone was using, so your results may not be comparable to others. It looks like it may operate in two modes, one of which may be looking for signals that are too long and the other for signals that are too short. It looks like Digikey still sells the Curtis counter -- so maybe just get one of those for $24?...
Hmmm I thought I sources the correct party number.... here is the part number and some pics of the Instructions..... if you don’t think it will work I’ll grab the other unit
10-05-2019, 02:36 PM
#240
Rennlist Member
I did see other people using the red lion counters, but at least based on the instructions you posted, I'd go with the Curtis myself.
https://www.digikey.com/products/en?...03PR-102&v=267
Or better yet, get V-Knock from Vitesse:
http://www.vitesseracing.com/html/v-knock.html
The red lion appears to count in two different speed modes, 30Hz or 10kHz. The Curtis 703 operates at 500Hz, which seems better suited to the speed of the knock pulse. You are likely to miss knocks at 30Hz and pick up more electrical noise as counts at 10kHZ. I did a ton of work trying to replicate the Curtis knock counts using my own programmable hardware and saw first hand that the sample rate plays a very big difference in the final count.
https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turb...k-counter.html
https://www.digikey.com/products/en?...03PR-102&v=267
Or better yet, get V-Knock from Vitesse:
http://www.vitesseracing.com/html/v-knock.html
The red lion appears to count in two different speed modes, 30Hz or 10kHz. The Curtis 703 operates at 500Hz, which seems better suited to the speed of the knock pulse. You are likely to miss knocks at 30Hz and pick up more electrical noise as counts at 10kHZ. I did a ton of work trying to replicate the Curtis knock counts using my own programmable hardware and saw first hand that the sample rate plays a very big difference in the final count.
https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turb...k-counter.html