Gain 100HP with an intake manifold change?? - Cross post from Ferrari Chat
04-14-2016, 01:43 PM
#691
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Mark,
If you want a quick manifold, all you have to do is get a set of flanges like this, insert 2" tubing (either strait or bent). Velocity stacks are available off the shelf from several places, such as Racer X:
http://racerxfabrication.com/velocity-stacks/machined
Either fabricate a plenum box, or you can use existing extrusions or castings for a cross-ram style, for example:
http://www.rossmachineracing.com/intakepartspage.html
As I mentioned before, just making a random intake is not hard, it just may not perform any better than stock.
If you want a quick manifold, all you have to do is get a set of flanges like this, insert 2" tubing (either strait or bent). Velocity stacks are available off the shelf from several places, such as Racer X:
http://racerxfabrication.com/velocity-stacks/machined
Either fabricate a plenum box, or you can use existing extrusions or castings for a cross-ram style, for example:
http://www.rossmachineracing.com/intakepartspage.html
As I mentioned before, just making a random intake is not hard, it just may not perform any better than stock.
04-14-2016, 02:14 PM
#692
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I think Mark Kibort should open his wallet, which is thick enough he says, and buy one of Greg Brown´s intake. Everybody will be happy, Mark Kibort will get the power he is longing for and Greg Brown will be satisfied finally being able to sell something to Mark Kibort. Greg Brown and Mark Kibort will be best friends and live happily together for the rest of their lives.
Åke
PS The downside is that it will probably put an end to this thread.
Åke
PS The downside is that it will probably put an end to this thread.
04-14-2016, 02:21 PM
#693
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I think Mark Kibort should open his wallet, which is thick enough he says, and buy one of Greg Brown´s intake. Everybody will be happy, Mark Kibort will get the power he is longing for and Greg Brown will be satisfied finally being able to sell something to Mark Kibort. Greg Brown and Mark Kibort will be best friends and live happily together for the rest of their lives.
Åke
PS The downside is that it will probably put an end to this thread.
Åke
PS The downside is that it will probably put an end to this thread.
04-14-2016, 02:34 PM
#694
Rennlist Member
I think Mark Kibort should open his wallet, which is thick enough he says, and buy one of Greg Brown´s intake. Everybody will be happy, Mark Kibort will get the power he is longing for and Greg Brown will be satisfied finally being able to sell something to Mark Kibort. Greg Brown and Mark Kibort will be best friends and live happily together for the rest of their lives.
Åke
PS The downside is that it will probably put an end to this thread.
Åke
PS The downside is that it will probably put an end to this thread.
However, i did buy something from Greg. he was instrumental in helping me with my crazy radiator failure and sold me the side tanks!
Maybe greg and I will virtually , "hug it out".
btw... i dont think anyone even knows what the intake will cost.... at some $ value, even i might be interested. certainly im not for more than $10k, but thats just me.
04-14-2016, 02:37 PM
#695
Rennlist Member
Mark,
If you want a quick manifold, all you have to do is get a set of flanges like this, insert 2" tubing (either strait or bent). Velocity stacks are available off the shelf from several places, such as Racer X:
http://racerxfabrication.com/velocity-stacks/machined
Either fabricate a plenum box, or you can use existing extrusions or castings for a cross-ram style, for example:
http://www.rossmachineracing.com/intakepartspage.html
As I mentioned before, just making a random intake is not hard, it just may not perform any better than stock.
If you want a quick manifold, all you have to do is get a set of flanges like this, insert 2" tubing (either strait or bent). Velocity stacks are available off the shelf from several places, such as Racer X:
http://racerxfabrication.com/velocity-stacks/machined
Either fabricate a plenum box, or you can use existing extrusions or castings for a cross-ram style, for example:
http://www.rossmachineracing.com/intakepartspage.html
As I mentioned before, just making a random intake is not hard, it just may not perform any better than stock.
i think you are right. i would end up with something that didnt work as well as stock if i just make a random intake... but, the AMV8 intake is a proven design and adapting is only the footing.... seems doable, might not... but maybe!!
04-14-2016, 02:43 PM
#696
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04-14-2016, 04:03 PM
#697
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MK,
Just buy Hans's lowers and injector rails and calculate the runner length and diameter for power requirements based on cam and cylinder volume and bsfc. Fab those inside a sheet metal plenum and you will be much closer than cutting and welding the AM intake.
Believe me, once you cut the AM intake, it will be ruined permanently. Not to mention it will be less expensive to make a new one than cut the AM piece.
If you must use the AM piece, one idea would be to build a nylon adapter that goes from the AM intake to the 928 head. It would need to be 3D printed..... I have cad for the 928 head, but not for the AM. You would need to get that scanned and then do a virtual marriage to a 928 base.
After all that, just easier to buy a GB intake....
You cannot begin to imagine what it costs to develop prototype stuff..... I can show you engineering invoices if you want.....
Cheers
Just buy Hans's lowers and injector rails and calculate the runner length and diameter for power requirements based on cam and cylinder volume and bsfc. Fab those inside a sheet metal plenum and you will be much closer than cutting and welding the AM intake.
Believe me, once you cut the AM intake, it will be ruined permanently. Not to mention it will be less expensive to make a new one than cut the AM piece.
If you must use the AM piece, one idea would be to build a nylon adapter that goes from the AM intake to the 928 head. It would need to be 3D printed..... I have cad for the 928 head, but not for the AM. You would need to get that scanned and then do a virtual marriage to a 928 base.
After all that, just easier to buy a GB intake....
You cannot begin to imagine what it costs to develop prototype stuff..... I can show you engineering invoices if you want.....
Cheers
04-14-2016, 04:11 PM
#698
Rennlist Member
MK,
Just buy Hans's lowers and injector rails and calculate the runner length and diameter for power requirements based on cam and cylinder volume and bsfc. Fab those inside a sheet metal plenum and you will be much closer than cutting and welding the AM intake.
Believe me, once you cut the AM intake, it will be ruined permanently. Not to mention it will be less expensive to make a new one than cut the AM piece.
If you must use the AM piece, one idea would be to build a nylon adapter that goes from the AM intake to the 928 head. It would need to be 3D printed..... I have cad for the 928 head, but not for the AM. You would need to get that scanned and then do a virtual marriage to a 928 base.
After all that, just easier to buy a GB intake....
You cannot begin to imagine what it costs to develop prototype stuff..... I can show you engineering invoices if you want.....
Cheers
Just buy Hans's lowers and injector rails and calculate the runner length and diameter for power requirements based on cam and cylinder volume and bsfc. Fab those inside a sheet metal plenum and you will be much closer than cutting and welding the AM intake.
Believe me, once you cut the AM intake, it will be ruined permanently. Not to mention it will be less expensive to make a new one than cut the AM piece.
If you must use the AM piece, one idea would be to build a nylon adapter that goes from the AM intake to the 928 head. It would need to be 3D printed..... I have cad for the 928 head, but not for the AM. You would need to get that scanned and then do a virtual marriage to a 928 base.
After all that, just easier to buy a GB intake....
You cannot begin to imagine what it costs to develop prototype stuff..... I can show you engineering invoices if you want.....
Cheers
otherwise, you are really taking a chance of having very disparate flows from cylinder to cylinder, plus, who knows if it is better than stock s4. the AM intake will for sure , be better than stock. its the reason that the little 4.3 engine, can make 335rwhp with a cam like the GT as far as lift and duration, and only one point higher compression. increase the displacement of that engine to 4.7,and the power goes to 450rwhp in top cases (1mm more lift and exhuast, ecu changes ) thats 100hp/liter! my theory, is most of this is in the intake.
04-14-2016, 04:20 PM
#699
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I doubt the 4.7 AM engine does 450rwhp. That would make it as powerful as the V12 vantage 6L and I know it's not there.
The graziano manual or speed TT auto hog about 60 hp, so the numbers seem off.
In any event, good luck. I doubt the AM intake swapped directly to a 6L 928 will give you more power. If you do get the AM connected to the 928 head, you will also have disparate flow cyl to cyl.
Anyway, again, good luck. Just my $0.02 from someone who has developed intake parts for a 928.
Cheers,
The graziano manual or speed TT auto hog about 60 hp, so the numbers seem off.
In any event, good luck. I doubt the AM intake swapped directly to a 6L 928 will give you more power. If you do get the AM connected to the 928 head, you will also have disparate flow cyl to cyl.
Anyway, again, good luck. Just my $0.02 from someone who has developed intake parts for a 928.
Cheers,
04-14-2016, 04:21 PM
#700
Captain Obvious
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Super User
You now have all the answers to all your questions and all the parts to commission your design into a product......time to cough up the dough!!! I already feel sorry for the poor chap that takes on this project. 
04-14-2016, 05:54 PM
#701
Rennlist Member
im going to do it. mock it up and see if it can be done. if it looks impossible, im sure i can sell it again. heck,its a beautiful piece of garage art! but if i cut it, its done and ready for the welders!
how much for the hans' flanges????
04-14-2016, 07:34 PM
#703
Former Sponsor
its 1" over the entire intake, so i guess it looks like .5" per runner , wider. I dont know how difficult it will be ... YOU should have the grasp of that for sure, especially with your crazy turns and bends of artwork for your headers. i would think this would be childs play for you.... now, i have to find your welder!
not really.. i was just thinking of ;lapping off the lower manifold, not the manifold themselves.. that was suggested but would be a disaster.
HANS has the part!! forgot about those!
so this is the way! how much for a set of those? sems much easier than adapting the 944S2 runners and welding on them, but maybe not. yours are a clean slate and all we need is a tube from that to the AMV8 runner
its crazy! the kawi 500 was a beast. not as much power as the 750 triple, but ligther. like i said, ive never been so scared on the road. even to this day!
actually, it looks as though the total distance each runner will be off is .5" per runner last runner per side comparison, total is 2" off (56mm), this is divided by each runner. im probably going to get the AM intake and then mock up something
there is that wide bad HP discussion.. exactly right... that HP peak was up in the 17,000rpm and was very narrow! be in the wrong gear and it acted like a CB100 honda!
i never figured that out either.. thats why ive never been more scared on the road before! WOT= wheelie! ... thats when i downgraded to a GPZ500. so tame!!
not really.. i was just thinking of ;lapping off the lower manifold, not the manifold themselves.. that was suggested but would be a disaster.
HANS has the part!! forgot about those!
so this is the way! how much for a set of those? sems much easier than adapting the 944S2 runners and welding on them, but maybe not. yours are a clean slate and all we need is a tube from that to the AMV8 runner
its crazy! the kawi 500 was a beast. not as much power as the 750 triple, but ligther. like i said, ive never been so scared on the road. even to this day!
actually, it looks as though the total distance each runner will be off is .5" per runner last runner per side comparison, total is 2" off (56mm), this is divided by each runner. im probably going to get the AM intake and then mock up something
there is that wide bad HP discussion
.. exactly right... that HP peak was up in the 17,000rpm and was very narrow! be in the wrong gear and it acted like a CB100 honda!i never figured that out either.. thats why ive never been more scared on the road before! WOT= wheelie! ... thats when i downgraded to a GPZ500. so tame!!
Hans is an artist!
04-14-2016, 07:38 PM
#704
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04-14-2016, 07:44 PM
#705
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Even if by some chance the general concepts employed in the AMV8's intake were right for the 928, the various parts of the intake are undoubtedly the wrong size for the 928's motor. Your dealing in an area where small changes in size and shape make huge differences in performance. What are the chances that the AMV8's intake -- sized for a motor of a substantially different design than the 928's -- is the correct size for a 928? Fat and slim have already left town. The only chance you have left is none.
If you're going to do this thing, use Hans' parts in combination with off the shelf components to produce an intake with the length and diameter of runners you want. It's not going to get any simpler than that.