Gain 100HP with an intake manifold change?? - Cross post from Ferrari Chat
04-12-2016, 03:10 PM
#617
Both are magnesium alloy. Customer ends would be need to be fabed up. Unless someone bites the bullet and buys a AM I take and cuts it up and tries. Just going tin circles here
04-12-2016, 03:12 PM
#618
Rennlist Member
i was thinking outside the mail box... but none of the 928 intakes seem to have runners that come out as something you could attach anything too.. maybe the 968 manifold might have something that can be grabbed on to
04-12-2016, 03:13 PM
#619
Rennlist Member
04-12-2016, 04:56 PM
#622
Captain Obvious
Super User
Super User
just back off Imo... I should ask, what are you looking for? .. not one of your posts has any value, other than to be insulting...
this is a discussion , with roots to of the benefits of a custom intake that was on the Ferrari, not morphing into a discussion about intake possibilities for the 928, for which my idea is one. could be a long shot, but its one. i want to see if it can be built, as i think it would work.... the listers are providing the caveats, which i appreciate.
to answer your question, looking for information as im getting a lot here about all the gochas of building such a beast. I have NO problem cutting a check for components to build such an intake. Greg knows I am no threat here, and in fact, airing all the complications of the alternatives, strengthens his value proposition and gives clarity to what really he is doing and the deficiencies of the stock intake.
this is a discussion , with roots to of the benefits of a custom intake that was on the Ferrari, not morphing into a discussion about intake possibilities for the 928, for which my idea is one. could be a long shot, but its one. i want to see if it can be built, as i think it would work.... the listers are providing the caveats, which i appreciate.
to answer your question, looking for information as im getting a lot here about all the gochas of building such a beast. I have NO problem cutting a check for components to build such an intake. Greg knows I am no threat here, and in fact, airing all the complications of the alternatives, strengthens his value proposition and gives clarity to what really he is doing and the deficiencies of the stock intake.
So now you are gathering info to tech others how to build a manifold for you? Greg switching the conversation technique to a more civilized tone creates essentially free advertising for his product and gives an insight to how difficult it really is to bring a product to market (which you seem to disregard by your constant reference to the Aston Martin part).
All one has to do is read your posts from the beginning and get a pretty good idea you don't have the money to commission this part but would love others to take on the risk and then maybe buy one.
Those that know how to build a proper manifold, don't need engineering guidance from someone that has no idea what they are talking about either. Do you see/understand any of this?
Get your wallet out and
04-12-2016, 05:04 PM
#624
Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Whoa! That is a suuuuu-weeeet set up. That would be one expensive system to have built. I found some guys on a Covette forum saying it cost them $11k just to buy the LS bits from Kinsler. Can't imagine what a custom fabricated 928 intake, EFI, ITB set up would cost..... $50k for number 1?
No need to hack up an AM manifold, bring money, Kinsler will make a nice set of itb's for you....
A Must Have Kinsler Cross Ram Injected Manifolds 2010.mpg - YouTube
A Must Have Kinsler Cross Ram Injected Manifolds 2010.mpg - YouTube
04-12-2016, 05:16 PM
#625
Rennlist Member
So now you are gathering info to tech others how to build a manifold for you? Greg switching the conversation technique to a more civilized tone creates essentially free advertising for his product and gives an insight to how difficult it really is to bring a product to market (which you seem to disregard by your constant reference to the Aston Martin part).
All one has to do is read your posts from the beginning and get a pretty good idea you don't have the money to commission this part but would love others to take on the risk and then maybe buy one.
Those that know how to build a proper manifold, don't need engineering guidance from someone that has no idea what they are talking about either. Do you see/understand any of this?
Get your wallet out and
All one has to do is read your posts from the beginning and get a pretty good idea you don't have the money to commission this part but would love others to take on the risk and then maybe buy one.
Those that know how to build a proper manifold, don't need engineering guidance from someone that has no idea what they are talking about either. Do you see/understand any of this?
Get your wallet out and
ready to buy it now... still have my doubts, BUT, if we can find something to bolt to the heads and connect to the bottom of the runners, then we are golden.
IMO, this is concept mode... its how things happen!
04-12-2016, 05:32 PM
#626
Former Sponsor
what your last comment says, is very telling.... it says what you are trying to say, PLUS it says there might be a CF intake available sometime soon too! 
Greg.. I get it... probably more than you give me credit for. that intake..... was a work of art (design wise) but buildwise , it was a nightmare that Mark and you had to live! the things i poke fun at, such as the MAF in a PVC pipe is crude, but effective. heck, if i did that, i would have never heard the end of it!
i know you had 36lb injectors by the time the the CF intake went on. I also saw the fuel curves of the stroker motors with no CF intake making 420hp at 42psi, and the fuel curves were ALL over the map 10s, to 12s..... mine is looking much better than those and that's with my low end knowledge base and technology. the point is, i think with any high flow intake, if i can get the extra 50hp , in fact, not much more than mark and joe were getting from the start, i think the 30lb injectors and the fuel reg will work just fine.
solid . If i can get an AFM Ljet to gain 120hp without any changes but a fuel presure regulator, and keep things sparkly clean as far as safe ratios, i think i can do 50hp with the stuff i have, no?
Greg.. I get it... probably more than you give me credit for. that intake..... was a work of art (design wise) but buildwise , it was a nightmare that Mark and you had to live! the things i poke fun at, such as the MAF in a PVC pipe is crude, but effective. heck, if i did that, i would have never heard the end of it!
i know you had 36lb injectors by the time the the CF intake went on. I also saw the fuel curves of the stroker motors with no CF intake making 420hp at 42psi, and the fuel curves were ALL over the map 10s, to 12s..... mine is looking much better than those and that's with my low end knowledge base and technology. the point is, i think with any high flow intake, if i can get the extra 50hp , in fact, not much more than mark and joe were getting from the start, i think the 30lb injectors and the fuel reg will work just fine.
solid . If i can get an AFM Ljet to gain 120hp without any changes but a fuel presure regulator, and keep things sparkly clean as far as safe ratios, i think i can do 50hp with the stuff i have, no?
Keep in mind that fuel curves off of a dynojet are just a tiny bit better than completely worthless.
There's not enough time spent at any given rpm to get a decent idea of what is happening.
And by the time the sample reaches the end of the tailpipe and gets sucked up by the tiny sampling tube, is interpreted by a sensor, and transfered to the data stream of testing, what is being recorded as reality couldn't be farther away from actual reality, if you tried.
Note that the faster the engine accelerates (which means it makes more power) the worse the mixture information becomes....since the sample tube draws what it samples at a constant rate.
I use this fuel information as a general indication (or trend), only....impossible to tune from.
A steady state dyno (like my Mustang) is better for tuning...because you can hold the engine at different rpms under different loads and throttle positions. There's a downside to this also....it is very difficult to keep the engine at the same temperatures and conditions as if it was going down the road or track. (This is a problem with any dyno....just easier to see during extended testing.)
04-12-2016, 05:38 PM
#627
Former Sponsor
you are still in the dark.... its a discussion. im thinkiing of buying it. its an option, that will never be as good as greg browns. greg knows this . it probably wont even really be for the street 928s, only race. it might not even work...... but yes, im hear to talk about it. its an interesting concept.. use something already built and designed. (the hard part done already) and adapt it to the 928 S4, using all stock stuff. heck, it might not even be possible. nothing might fit..... BUT , then again, what if?
ready to buy it now... still have my doubts, BUT, if we can find something to bolt to the heads and connect to the bottom of the runners, then we are golden.
IMO, this is concept mode... its how things happen!
ready to buy it now... still have my doubts, BUT, if we can find something to bolt to the heads and connect to the bottom of the runners, then we are golden.
IMO, this is concept mode... its how things happen!
Wow. What does a new manifold cost?
04-12-2016, 05:39 PM
#628
Rennlist Member
Mark:
Keep in mind that fuel curves off of a dynojet are just a tiny bit better than completely worthless.
There's not enough time spent at any given rpm to get a decent idea of what is happening.
And by the time the sample reaches the end of the tailpipe and gets sucked up by the tiny sampling tube, is interpreted by a sensor, and transfered to the data stream of testing, what is being recorded as reality couldn't be farther away from actual reality, if you tried.
Note that the faster the engine accelerates (which means it makes more power) the worse the mixture information becomes....since the sample tube draws what it samples at a constant rate.
I use this fuel information as a general indication (or trend), only....impossible to tune from.
A steady state dyno (like my Mustang) is better for tuning...because you can hold the engine at different rpms under different loads and throttle positions. There's a downside to this also....it is very difficult to keep the engine at the same temperatures and conditions as if it was going down the road or track. (This is a problem with any dyno....just easier to see during extended testing.)
Keep in mind that fuel curves off of a dynojet are just a tiny bit better than completely worthless.
There's not enough time spent at any given rpm to get a decent idea of what is happening.
And by the time the sample reaches the end of the tailpipe and gets sucked up by the tiny sampling tube, is interpreted by a sensor, and transfered to the data stream of testing, what is being recorded as reality couldn't be farther away from actual reality, if you tried.
Note that the faster the engine accelerates (which means it makes more power) the worse the mixture information becomes....since the sample tube draws what it samples at a constant rate.
I use this fuel information as a general indication (or trend), only....impossible to tune from.
A steady state dyno (like my Mustang) is better for tuning...because you can hold the engine at different rpms under different loads and throttle positions. There's a downside to this also....it is very difficult to keep the engine at the same temperatures and conditions as if it was going down the road or track. (This is a problem with any dyno....just easier to see during extended testing.)
i don't know about that, but what you say does make sense. however, i will say in the comparison, it was pretty close.( wide band in header port, vs in the tailpipe ) the plugs, using the old fashion way of looking at the insulation, tended to agree with the over rich mixture i was seeing. we got in the 11s and almost 12s... rich, but not optimal and the plugs again agree with the output when we went a full point leaner (started out at 10s) again, what you say makes sense, but after all the O2 sensor , especially a wide band meter in the leg of a header, can be fairly accurate . or maybe i should say, accurate enough to set up the engine to a level that wont hurt itself.
04-12-2016, 06:16 PM
#629
Administrator - "Tyson"
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Thread Starter
https://www.dynojet.com/products/dyn...er-224xlc.aspx
04-12-2016, 06:37 PM
#630
Rennlist Member
The Dynojet we've been using in Green Bay for the past 10+ years is a steady state AWD unit with twin eddy current brakes.
https://www.dynojet.com/products/dyn...er-224xlc.aspx
https://www.dynojet.com/products/dyn...er-224xlc.aspx
the intakes cost about $3k for the new upgrade version. (replaces this one), its good for 30 more hp and comes with a larger throttle body. used these things are around 500 to 1000 and new replacement around 2k. but thats Aston martin where everything costs a tone. oil changes are $800