Victor's Rotrex Supercharger Kit - Group Buy?
09-22-2012, 04:20 PM
#106
Flame away.
09-22-2012, 04:32 PM
#107
Nordschleife Master
Jim,
This here be the internets. There is almost NO threads on RL that dont change direction in one fashion or another. Just like a regular conversation, it always changes direction, its a fact/way of life.
I personally agree with what Greg has said. Imagine how upset you would be if you were told you would be getting 481rwhp out of your car to then put it on the dyno after the install and only see 380rwhp. Only then to be told that he would guarentee around 450CHP.
You the customer would be PISSED.
From seeing the dyno chart that Victor keeps liking to post up, he is apparently getting 326rwhp with just a RMB. A stock S4 auto is between 260-270rwhp, I would guarantee, as I imaging Greg would to, that if you put his car onto another dyno that the numbers would likely be sub 400rwhp.
Also as to those of you stating that this thread was for a group buy, it has already been stated that a group buy must be handled by a rennlist business member. As Mike isnt a business member, this makes this thread erroneous and why not turn it into a debate.
This here be the internets. There is almost NO threads on RL that dont change direction in one fashion or another. Just like a regular conversation, it always changes direction, its a fact/way of life.
I personally agree with what Greg has said. Imagine how upset you would be if you were told you would be getting 481rwhp out of your car to then put it on the dyno after the install and only see 380rwhp. Only then to be told that he would guarentee around 450CHP.
You the customer would be PISSED.
From seeing the dyno chart that Victor keeps liking to post up, he is apparently getting 326rwhp with just a RMB. A stock S4 auto is between 260-270rwhp, I would guarantee, as I imaging Greg would to, that if you put his car onto another dyno that the numbers would likely be sub 400rwhp.
Also as to those of you stating that this thread was for a group buy, it has already been stated that a group buy must be handled by a rennlist business member. As Mike isnt a business member, this makes this thread erroneous and why not turn it into a debate.
09-22-2012, 04:38 PM
#108
Goddamn guys.
I'm out of this one....
I'm out of this one....
09-22-2012, 04:47 PM
#109
Three Wheelin'
I'd like to point out that the compressor being used in these kits is VERY similar (as far as airflow goes) to the Vortech that the Murf kits use. Everyone is pretty familiar with the Murf stage one numbers I'm sure, and if not, it's usually around 400rwhp.
There is NO way the "extra" efficiency of this Rotrex, which by the way, is NOT that much more than the Vortech, makes another 80rwhp at the same boost.
For those playing at home, the Rotrex unit is the C38-91, the Vortech I'm referencing is the V3 S-trim.
There is NO way the "extra" efficiency of this Rotrex, which by the way, is NOT that much more than the Vortech, makes another 80rwhp at the same boost.
For those playing at home, the Rotrex unit is the C38-91, the Vortech I'm referencing is the V3 S-trim.
09-22-2012, 04:52 PM
#110
Jim,
This here be the internets. There is almost NO threads on RL that dont change direction in one fashion or another. Just like a regular conversation, it always changes direction, its a fact/way of life.
I personally agree with what Greg has said. Imagine how upset you would be if you were told you would be getting 481rwhp out of your car to then put it on the dyno after the install and only see 380rwhp. Only then to be told that he would guarentee around 450CHP.
You the customer would be PISSED.
From seeing the dyno chart that Victor keeps liking to post up, he is apparently getting 326rwhp with just a RMB. A stock S4 auto is between 260-270rwhp, I would guarantee, as I imaging Greg would to, that if you put his car onto another dyno that the numbers would likely be sub 400rwhp.
Also as to those of you stating that this thread was for a group buy, it has already been stated that a group buy must be handled by a rennlist business member. As Mike isnt a business member, this makes this thread erroneous and why not turn it into a debate.
This here be the internets. There is almost NO threads on RL that dont change direction in one fashion or another. Just like a regular conversation, it always changes direction, its a fact/way of life.
I personally agree with what Greg has said. Imagine how upset you would be if you were told you would be getting 481rwhp out of your car to then put it on the dyno after the install and only see 380rwhp. Only then to be told that he would guarentee around 450CHP.
You the customer would be PISSED.
From seeing the dyno chart that Victor keeps liking to post up, he is apparently getting 326rwhp with just a RMB. A stock S4 auto is between 260-270rwhp, I would guarantee, as I imaging Greg would to, that if you put his car onto another dyno that the numbers would likely be sub 400rwhp.
Also as to those of you stating that this thread was for a group buy, it has already been stated that a group buy must be handled by a rennlist business member. As Mike isnt a business member, this makes this thread erroneous and why not turn it into a debate.
09-22-2012, 05:58 PM
#111
Former Sponsor
He had his used transmission that he bought from 928 International (and which I specifically told Mark Anderson had a worn out limited slip) installed by a guy down in Orange (a muffler shop) at Mark's suggestion. Mark knew I wouldn't quietly install something that was way, way "sub par" and suggested that this other shop do the work, because they would be "cheaper".
"Cheaper", in this case means: "Close your eyes and throw this used-up transmission into the car."
I'm so pissed that Mark Anderson would pull something like this, just to make a couple of dollars, that Mark and I have not talked.....in months! I talk to Tom, frequently.....but I've got nothing to say to Mark. That transmission sat at my shop, for months, while everyone knew it was completely "worn out". To sell it to an unsuspecting customer as a "good" used transmission, and recommend that it get installed at a sub par shop that wouldn't mention that is was worn out, is completely wrong, in my book.
Of course, now the thing needs another ring and pinion (also worn out and noisy) with a limited skip that actually works.....which is actually pretty silly for anyone to do.....because the automatic transmission section of the transmission is also going to be also worn out!
And because I'm virtually the only guy, in California, that has a clue about how to properly set-up a ring and pinion in an automatic transmission, much less rebuild and set-up the limited slip properly, he wants me to do it.
While he's up in my face?
Never going to happen......
09-22-2012, 06:06 PM
#112
Former Vendor
Never was a friend or a customer. I've got people waiting patiently (and some impatiently) for me to have time to work on their cars.....there's no point in working on something for someone that feels the need to be up in my face.
He had his used transmission that he bought from 928 International (and which I specifically told Mark Anderson had a worn out limited slip) installed by a guy down in Orange (a muffler shop) at Mark's suggestion. Mark knew I wouldn't quietly install something that was way, way "sub par" and suggested that this other shop do the work, because they would be "cheaper".
"Cheaper", in this case means: "Close your eyes and throw this used-up transmission into the car."
I'm so pissed that Mark Anderson would pull something like this, just to make a couple of dollars, that Mark and I have not talked.....in months! I talk to Tom, frequently.....but I've got nothing to say to Mark. That transmission sat at my shop, for months, while everyone knew it was completely "worn out". To sell it to an unsuspecting customer as a "good" used transmission, and recommend that it get installed at a sub par shop that wouldn't mention that is was worn out, is completely wrong, in my book.
Of course, now the thing needs another ring and pinion (also worn out and noisy) with a limited skip that actually works.....which is actually pretty silly for anyone to do.....because the automatic transmission section of the transmission is also going to be also worn out!
And because I'm virtually the only guy, in California, that has a clue about how to properly set-up a ring and pinion in an automatic transmission, much less rebuild and set-up the limited slip properly, he wants me to do it.
While he's up in my face?
Never going to happen......
He had his used transmission that he bought from 928 International (and which I specifically told Mark Anderson had a worn out limited slip) installed by a guy down in Orange (a muffler shop) at Mark's suggestion. Mark knew I wouldn't quietly install something that was way, way "sub par" and suggested that this other shop do the work, because they would be "cheaper".
"Cheaper", in this case means: "Close your eyes and throw this used-up transmission into the car."
I'm so pissed that Mark Anderson would pull something like this, just to make a couple of dollars, that Mark and I have not talked.....in months! I talk to Tom, frequently.....but I've got nothing to say to Mark. That transmission sat at my shop, for months, while everyone knew it was completely "worn out". To sell it to an unsuspecting customer as a "good" used transmission, and recommend that it get installed at a sub par shop that wouldn't mention that is was worn out, is completely wrong, in my book.
Of course, now the thing needs another ring and pinion (also worn out and noisy) with a limited skip that actually works.....which is actually pretty silly for anyone to do.....because the automatic transmission section of the transmission is also going to be also worn out!
And because I'm virtually the only guy, in California, that has a clue about how to properly set-up a ring and pinion in an automatic transmission, much less rebuild and set-up the limited slip properly, he wants me to do it.
While he's up in my face?
Never going to happen......
09-22-2012, 06:43 PM
#113
I'd like to point out that the compressor being used in these kits is VERY similar (as far as airflow goes) to the Vortech that the Murf kits use. Everyone is pretty familiar with the Murf stage one numbers I'm sure, and if not, it's usually around 400rwhp.
There is NO way the "extra" efficiency of this Rotrex, which by the way, is NOT that much more than the Vortech, makes another 80rwhp at the same boost.
For those playing at home, the Rotrex unit is the C38-91, the Vortech I'm referencing is the V3 S-trim.
There is NO way the "extra" efficiency of this Rotrex, which by the way, is NOT that much more than the Vortech, makes another 80rwhp at the same boost.
For those playing at home, the Rotrex unit is the C38-91, the Vortech I'm referencing is the V3 S-trim.
09-22-2012, 07:24 PM
#114
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too much drama on this board. Threads here mostly end up being power trips and mud slinging for no good reasons.
Lots of good stuff here but boy so much drama. It would be really nice to have some constructive thoughts on improvements etc without the drama.
My 02
Lots of good stuff here but boy so much drama. It would be really nice to have some constructive thoughts on improvements etc without the drama.
My 02
09-22-2012, 08:30 PM
#115
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
In case it's not obvious... No group buy for now! Glad it started such an interesting debate, but disappointed it took the turn it did. I think Victor has, at a minimum, produced a very intesting and affordable, power adder that appeals to a wide swath of us here. In dreamland, we'd all love strokers or twin turbo systems, but those run at least double what this kit looks to cost. Actually, in my dreamland, I would drive a '97 993 Turbo, but that's another story. The point is that this is one among many ways to add power to a 928, and it appears to be a nice compromise. Emphasis on compromise.
I think before a group buy on this product can go forward, a few things need to happen. First of all, a small business partner needs to be involved. That may be resolved. It's in the works. But at the same time, an independent dyno, or two, must be done so we can compare a few more apples. Hopefully that happens before too long. Ideally I'd like to get this restarted before the holiday season. I for one would love to see this under the tree... Even if I put it there myself!
Thanks to those that have expressed interest. Hopefully we can make this happen.
I think before a group buy on this product can go forward, a few things need to happen. First of all, a small business partner needs to be involved. That may be resolved. It's in the works. But at the same time, an independent dyno, or two, must be done so we can compare a few more apples. Hopefully that happens before too long. Ideally I'd like to get this restarted before the holiday season. I for one would love to see this under the tree... Even if I put it there myself!
Thanks to those that have expressed interest. Hopefully we can make this happen.
09-23-2012, 08:21 PM
#116
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What a crazy mess!!
Mike, we should set the record straight here. Yes the dyno sheet for my car said 481hp and 426tq. BUT that was my car after a lot of tuning, a supermaf setup, different exhaust, and I let it go past 6lbs of boost, and yes no intercooler but a cool Michigan day, not Texas temps.
The stage 1 kit comes with a 80mm pulley to keep the boost from climbing to high. I guarantee you will get up to and over 450 crank HP no problem. The s4 is good up 450hp without any issues, beyond that things can get tricky. The biggest is the MAF, it's only good up to about 450, beyond it tuning gets a little weird.
The stage 1 kit comes with a 80mm pulley to keep the boost from climbing to high. I guarantee you will get up to and over 450 crank HP no problem. The s4 is good up 450hp without any issues, beyond that things can get tricky. The biggest is the MAF, it's only good up to about 450, beyond it tuning gets a little weird.
Fact 1... I was the one that chimed in early in this thread and said... Wait a minute guys, don't think you will get 500RWhp from this kit. You will get 450chp (see above)
Fact 2... The web site and I guarantee that you will get to 450chp. Odds are if you tune well, you may get well past it.
Fact 3... Am I missing something??? What law is there that says stage 1 is exactly 6lbs boost? Why not 3, 5 or 7 or 9 for that matter? What law says I can't use a different MAF? I said to everyone if they would have bothered to read everything, it says "I let it go past 6lbs" (again see above) in that dyno run. Soooo... as not to confuse anyone I will change my signature so stage 1.39, will that make it better?
Fact 4... I posted the before and after dyno's on the same sheet, yes? I said what was done to my car, yes? Simply put, there is a before and after there!! Obviously everyone thinks the dyno was off, yeah ok, so it is or was. The point was there, a before and after for people to compare... YES??
Fact 5... I have a real job and run a profitable business. I am not trying to deceive anyone to make a living here.
If you want my kit, to get a guaranteed 450 dependable, easy to install HP, then contact me. If you want to go another route... beautiful!!! There are lots of ways to do it.. Call Greg and get a stroker, call Dave for a twin screw( who personally I think has the most awesome set up ), call Murf or 928 motorsports for a different style than mine. Hey get a rear mount turbo, they look and sound cool. All of these are great options, and I am not making a living at this, so I could give a rip, and don't appreciate the crap. I was just trying to help out with a group buy.. OOPS, wont be in any hurry to do that again.
Hell I spent the weekend racing motocross with my son and had a great time while everyone was all up in a tissy. LOL
If their is anything that is not clear, just ask!! I will give you a straight answer OK.
09-23-2012, 09:53 PM
#117
I think there has been a lot of callus critisim here of a great kit and honest vender. Whether you think somthing is a little more or a little less, just make your point with respect and not imply that someone is trying to trick someone. The knowledge on this board is astounding. I love hearing different opinions as long as its done without turning into a pissing match. This is a great kit for the money and any reasonable person will not give a **** less whether it brings their car to 430 crank or 480 crank considering the cost for HP gained that it provides. The condition of your engine alone is going to make that much variance. With all due respect here, there are plenty of guys to direct harsh comments at. Let's save that special energy for the Ebay guys that promise up to 40Hp for $19.99.
Last edited by rgs944; 09-23-2012 at 10:12 PM.
09-23-2012, 11:16 PM
#118
Rennlist Member
I hate the disharmony as much as anyone here, but I need to respectfully disagree with one point here:
I think most reasonable folks would care, but Victor's number was 481 rwhp which is ballpark 550 hp at the crank. That strikes a lot of folks, including me, as nonsense. Now I've met Victor and exchanged a bunch of email's with him, and he's not a BS kind of guy.
The problem is that when anyone starts putting out nonsense numbers, lots of folks are going to call BS. And properly so, because at some level, that's exactly what the "40 hp for $19.99" eBay guys are doing. The numbers establish the expectations, and need to be realistic. And Victor's 450 crank (390-ish rwhp) "guarantee" is realistic, the 481 rwhlp is not. What he needs to is go find the lowest-reading dyno he can, because that is the one that will be correctly calibrated, and publish those numbers.
The problem is that when anyone starts putting out nonsense numbers, lots of folks are going to call BS. And properly so, because at some level, that's exactly what the "40 hp for $19.99" eBay guys are doing. The numbers establish the expectations, and need to be realistic. And Victor's 450 crank (390-ish rwhp) "guarantee" is realistic, the 481 rwhlp is not. What he needs to is go find the lowest-reading dyno he can, because that is the one that will be correctly calibrated, and publish those numbers.
09-23-2012, 11:44 PM
#119
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I can not help but think that like big drilled rotors and painted calipers , really wide tires and large rims much of the appeal of a supercharger is WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE when you open the hood. Not sure it really matters how much power it makes just so it sounds like and looks like it might. And horsepower numbers ? one need only look at NOS threads to find you can make two thousand 
and see it discussed on video.
Having just been at the Bankruptcy auction I saw the results of over promising and under delivering. Nothing there would run at all including the Mustang and SS454 truck or car hauler which had a blower too ! and at least six dead 928 engines in a million pieces.
and see it discussed on video.Having just been at the Bankruptcy auction I saw the results of over promising and under delivering. Nothing there would run at all including the Mustang and SS454 truck or car hauler which had a blower too ! and at least six dead 928 engines in a million pieces.
09-24-2012, 12:15 AM
#120
I hate the disharmony as much as anyone here, but I need to respectfully disagree with one point here:
I think most reasonable folks would care, but Victor's number was 481 rwhp which is ballpark 550 hp at the crank. That strikes a lot of folks, including me, as nonsense. Now I've met Victor and exchanged a bunch of email's with him, and he's not a BS kind of guy.
The problem is that when anyone starts putting out nonsense numbers, lots of folks are going to call BS. And properly so, because at some level, that's exactly what the "40 hp for $19.99" eBay guys are doing. The numbers establish the expectations, and need to be realistic. And Victor's 450 crank (390-ish rwhp) "guarantee" is realistic, the 481 rwhlp is not. What he needs to is go find the lowest-reading dyno he can, because that is the one that will be correctly calibrated, and publish those numbers.
I think most reasonable folks would care, but Victor's number was 481 rwhp which is ballpark 550 hp at the crank. That strikes a lot of folks, including me, as nonsense. Now I've met Victor and exchanged a bunch of email's with him, and he's not a BS kind of guy.
The problem is that when anyone starts putting out nonsense numbers, lots of folks are going to call BS. And properly so, because at some level, that's exactly what the "40 hp for $19.99" eBay guys are doing. The numbers establish the expectations, and need to be realistic. And Victor's 450 crank (390-ish rwhp) "guarantee" is realistic, the 481 rwhlp is not. What he needs to is go find the lowest-reading dyno he can, because that is the one that will be correctly calibrated, and publish those numbers.