SeanR

I think you just picked the wrong guy to have a pissing match with. Sorry.

rgs944

You know I usually try to stay civil Sean, but let's hear what kit he thinks is better than the one he is running down and comparing the seller to 19.99 Ebay guys. Let's consider all the factors like design, dependability, build qaulity, and cost for HP gains. I know there is a lot of great competion out there from some very dedicated guys and I can promise you that I am not going to run them down, I know the work and dedication they all have into their products. Anyone who can not state a point in a humble and courtious way is lacking a little pissing envy. IMHO

rgs944

James, I can see your point on the looks factor of the larger rims, painted calipers, etc. etc. That is a matter of taste. I do respectfully disagree with you that a SC is along those same lines. Driving my car now is so much more enjoyable in traffic and is far from only a looks factor.

Tony

All you guys would eat your Fk'n young, i swear!

928mac

ha ha ha ROTFLMAO.

I love that Tony

rgs944

I apoligize for saying a few un-civil things. Good for calling us out. Bottom line is that I think the #'s are close enough to any possible margin of error. Without controlled scientific testing with all the same variables I doubt we can ever know real #'s from car to car within a 50HP variance. If someone thinks HP #'s on this great kit are off by a 50 HP error just give us your reasoning and state it with a little respect to someone who has clearly engineered a great 928 product. That is my entire point.

rgs944

I think this is worth posting again. This was very early in the thread before anyone made any callus and rude comments to hijack the thread. For the life of me I can not find where Victor claimed he will get you 480 at the wheels. He said that his car did and explained all the variables on why he believes those #'s are correct. Come on guys, this is a very good new kit and is great for the 928. I think all 928's should have 400 Hp or more. Now that would make all of our cars shoot up in resale value and continue them into the next generation.

Courtshark

There is a picture on the website, under the products tab, of a dyno sheet. On the bottom, it states "89 Porsche 928s4 stage I supercharged. . . . 481 rear wheel hp" http://www.vcbengineering.com/#!products

There is no explanation/disclaimer on the site. I applaud Victor for trying to "set the record straight" but it's still not perfectly straight; definitely a step in the right direction. And I still believe a few independent dyno runs will clarify exactly what gains can be had from this system. I don't think anyone said the gains are not worthwhile, but I certainly care to know what those figures should be on average. I don't like the idea of just randomly adding "more power" without knowing the likely specifics.

rgs944

I think if you read the wording on the site it is all spelled out on what you can expect. Read the large wording and it is abundantly clear to any person on what they are buying. Showing what his car did on the dyno is not specifically stating those will be your exact #'s. You don't really believe that eating Subway will make you lose weight do you? You take it as a little innoscent marketing and enjoy a great place to eat without screaming at the girl making your sandwich. Of course, I am sure a few people here call the BBB after they gain 10lbs. Also, just pick up the dang phone. Anyone who calls will be told the specifics with an abundance of clarity. Anyone who does not pick up the phone has zero claim for not getting what they expect. This is so rediculous it is to the point of being funny. I am embarrased that I let myself get worked up over such stupidity and nitpicking.

Courtshark

I think you're overreacting a little, though I'm not saying that others in this trhead haven't similarly overreacted. What's "spelled out" is actually very little, however. The text says expect gains to "well over 450 hp." Right next to a dyno specifying 481 hp at the wheels. I'm no scientist, but I prefer hard data to "mere puffery."

And you can lose weight eating at Subway; all you need to do is look at the data tied to what you order; things like calories, sugar content, and carb content. I lost 70 pounds in 6 months tracking such data. Data matters. Ask AO.

I think everyone just needs to take a breath and relax. We all love 928s, and some of us want to make ours go faster. How we go about that is a path, fortunately, currently rife with options, much like the Subway toppings trays. Personally, I like to make highly informed decisions when spending large amounts of money on modifying something I've already poured lots of money into. Not saying you don't. But saying that Victor's site is "abundantly clear" is, well, misleading.

Courtshark

And rgs944, why not go dyno your car? Appears to be in good working order and you're happy with the results. Put us out of our misery and dyno that sucker, please!

rgs944

Anyone who is spending that much money on a kit just needs to make the phone call and Victor is a no BS guy as was previously stated. A highly informed opinion like you want means picking up the dang phone and making a simple phone call instead of relying on what one 928 did on a dyno run. Anyone who buys something like this without getting it straight from the horses mouth is not a very smart person IMHO. That is what is so rediculous abut this whole senario. Trivial **** like this just turns everyone away whether it is a great product for not.

rgs944

Very classy post! Wow, the cream just keep coming to the top does'nt it? LOL

rgs944

The website spells out specifically that you can expect a 316 to 450 increase(about 130 average increase). That is well within line of what other kits are making with similiar boost. How could this be more abundantly clear. All you have to do is be able to read LARGE print and talk on the phone. Push the easy button now please. lol

AO

I don't have a dog in this hunt so take this for what you will. Having just spent the weekend at the dyno I can only offer my observations, and this is what I see:

On Victor's posted dyno sheet, the stock dyno run date appears to be AFTER the 481 dyno run. Not sure why.

Nowhere on the dyno sheet does it list the environmental statistics such as temperature, barometric pressure, etc. I don't list them on my sheet, but they are captured. All of these factors are supposed to be taken into account as they can affect HP from one day to the next. I have personally seen a dyno operator mess with these things to give a bigger number. His rationale was that his customers were disappointed with the results so he bumped up the number to make happy customers!

Nowhere on the dyno does it list the boost level. I have a feeling this may be where the bulk of the disparity lies. Victor says 6psi. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. If you look at my dyno sheet from a DynoJet dyno, it clearly shows AFR and Boost in addition to MAX HP and MAX TQ. I know when you're at the dyno, you're focused on AFR or knock count.... not boost. You cannot control boost actively on the dyno. The car makes what it makes. All you can do is control fuel and timing - so that's what you focus on.

This weekend I saw a car making 8psi throw down 450+ at the rear wheels. I also got a ride in a 1,006 HP car. They are both incredibly fast! I'm sure Victor's kit is fast. But as Jim and Jim have both pointed out, when you make claims like Victor has (implied) in his signature, you need to be able to back them up. The dyno sheet Victor has provided attempts to do this. But in my opinion, it leaves some big open questions - not many, but a few key ones.

I don't think, for a moment, that Victor is trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes. We saw the same scrutiny when Carl sold kits, and when John Kuhn started selling turbos, and even a little when DR started. It's part of the learning curve.

I also don't think he's getting rich off these kits - in fact I would guarantee that at this point he's lost a lot of money on it. No one in this market has made a lot of money on SCer kits.

So, there are things to be skeptical about. There are also things to be excited about. Until there are a few more dyno sheets I, personally, will hold on to my skepticism. But yeah... boost is fun!