Speedtoys

I think now is a good time to ask for the "Mine feels right because...." and not compare to Carls shocks/springs/etc because that's a WHOLE NOTHER Religion...and not really part of this thread.

Suspension setups are very individual to the driver..even if half shot, the driver can be happy with it, and turn good times.

GregBBRD

Aside from the fact that the mount in the picture isn't going to work, this is a complete other problem.

In one post Carl is trying to sell 9 sets of untested "stuff".

In the next post, Carl is waiting to do initial (he calls it final, but it is initial) testing on his own car.

Which is it?

Look, I've been kind enough to help people get "past" problems with Carl's stuff, by selling them the "correct" pieces, at my own cost (front upper control arms, made for racing, that Carl sold to a total street guy and wouldn't take back.)

Carl:

I've got a customer that wants to try your shock set-up. If it doesn't work, can I return it for a full refund, since it is a "new" "untested" product, or is he/me stuck with it?

Bill Ball

Fair answer. I saw the steel inner sleeve and it appears to be keyed to the bushing, so there is no friction between the inner sleeve and the bushing. Great. You suggest you designed it so the steel inner sleeve rotates relative to the pin and absorbs the friction. That is not identical to the stock setup and I can't see how you did that. Normally that center sleeve is locked to the pin by the end washer and nut torqued down to 103 lb ft and rotates with the pin. It sure looks to me like the outer shell of the mount you designed, which is locked to the LCA, is going to rotate on the bushing and wear it out. The pictures seem pretty clear regarding this, but I may just have some fundamental misperception. If it's just me, don't worry about having to explain it any more than you have.

What you are doing, offering this before field testing so as to allow early adopters to jump in, isn't a completely unheard of practice, but I think since you admit you haven't tested this under real world conditions, you should be VERY clear upfront that this is an alpha (or maybe beta) prototype and spell out exactly what you will and will not do in terms of returns and upgrades. If you have already set this out in some boilerplate policy on your website, then please link to it. You came in and offered this as a new product, but only later clarified that you haven't field tested it yet. I think a lot of the consternation and inflamed responses are a result of that.

When we did beta testing of new hardware products in the computer industry, we sent engineering samples out for free. However, they were to be returned. You don't want engineering samples floating around on the open market. You might want to consider a variation on that, providing some substantial discount for a few early adopters who agree to install it immediately and provide some concerted testing and feedback, or sending a few samples out free with the understanding they must be purchased or returned at the end of the testing period. It's just a bit unusual to sell this sophisticated kind of new product before any field testing.

Cheburator

Mark,

We know you have to butt in everywhere, but spare me the advise. Porsche came up with these figures for the Nurburgring. Given that the car spends most of the time there, I am happy to go with that. Moreover, I did two seasons on 800/550 and the car was way too soft...

Here ended the rant...

P.S. My Leda 2-way adjustable have been valved to handle the springs...

GregBBRD

So, perhaps I/we have all been too quick to judge. You are saying here that there is more to the whole thing than what you have pictured? That there is some sort of another mechanism that you are not showing?

To be clearer with my question....you are saying that there is more to this mount than you are showing in the picture? There's more than a perfectly cylindrical inner metal sleeve, a perfectly cylindrical urethane bushing, and the outer housing that has the tab that goes over and registers on the control arm?

There's something else on the bottom that does some mystery function?

GregBBRD

Pretty common knowledge that the "European" tracks are way smoother than virtually anything we have here.

"Smooth" generally requires more spring rate, so that makes sense you would be able to run stiffer springs.

Carl Fausett

Greg - your claim to have "fixed" any of my parts is utter nonsense and a complete fabrication. You are not the person you pretend to be. You play one game up front, and then around the back you PM me complete ****. Grow up, Drama Queen. You enjoy the arguments too much.




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Carl Fausett

Bill,

Sooner or later nearly every one of my new product threads gets off the product and down to my business model. This one just did.

I appreciate your input, but would rather discuss the product than my business model, please. I am in a niche of a niche. To say the 928 is a niche market for parts is an understantement, and I am in a very small niche of that - performance products. I sell very few OEM parts as a service to my good customers, but I let the 928 Intl's, the 928 Specialists. and Roger hammer out the volumes of OEM parts.

I fund my own R&D, never asking a pre-buy or a group by. I have to eat my own bad designs when they happen, or good designs that do not sell. Its a niche of a niche, and the 928 international business model or the DR or the Roger business model does not work here.

Yet - I have outlasted DEVEK and 928 Developments, and I have over 300 different SKU's to offer, up from 1 when I started in 2000. Not all our SKU's are mine - some I just found (like Mechanics Service Covers, for example), but still, if you stop in to tour our facility you would be amazed at the specialty parts we stock.

I am celebrating our 12th year in this little niche, and celebrating a 100% satisfactiion rating over 11 years on eBay. See for yourself, we don't rip anybody off.
Link: http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAP...ab=AllFeedback

If you can do several thousand transactions spanning 11 years with John Q Public, and satisfy all their demands - you must be doing something right.

So I am sorry if I don't apologize for my business model. It works for me. I've said this now at least three times in this thread: This is a posting to tell you about a NEW item. It is new, and it says NEW on the thread title. Some want every new cell phone/gadget/thingee thing the moment they come out. Some would rather wait to see if those who buy in early are happy before they buy in too.

I get that. I plan for that. It's OK.

Hilton

OT - but at least one shop here in Australia will re-valve Koni shocks (and has done for at least a couple of 928 owners).

Carl Fausett

Mark,

You left out the parts where it would have to fit every shock made, sell for $1, and have a lifetime warranty. :-)

Perhaps someone else can make that part for you. Perhaps you can. It won't be me.

But what I HAVE done is pretty close... these mounts will allow the fitment of any competition shock (of the right length) that have 1/2" spherical rod ends for mounts.

BTW: next we will be offering a top-end shock with a remote reservoir. They will likely be Penske's as they have been very helpful in developing a shock with me for the 928 application.
Then this set-up will be the "middle" competition setup.

We will still have the Konis, of course, but we will be able to offer the aluminum PRO shocks here and then the aluminum Penske shocks with remote reservoir.

mark kibort

true to a certain extent. no one really raced the 928 that fast. just compare the race cars of the day to the cup cars of 2000. when you start pushing the car real hard, the way the 928 is set up geometrically, it doesnt require the stiffness as say the 911 and BMW did. thats why they over sprung the 928 earlyon in their aborted racing history.

if you are heavier than the real race cars, that would make sense. ive driven andersons at 1000lb front springs and it was way too sprung. he was lose for years until he dropped down to the 800s. going softer is something that some guys get eventually. in fact many of racers ive beat for years, when the go soft, they become able to use the HP advantage over me, for which prior, they couldnt. we are taliking 3-4 seconds in one day due to a major spring change.

I dont know the ring, other than what i have seen on the incar footage. it is very smooth and certanly that is a reason to stiffen things up a bit.

now, as far as me buttting in , get used to it. its a discussion board.

btw, if you have footage from your Brands Hatch race, post it so i can see what your talking about. if you noticed, we have some smooth and fast tracks here , like thunderhill and you can see even dennis' set up there and smooth Laguna being a huge issue for him. he kept on adding things that were supposed to make him faster and all it did was slow him down. (locking diff, heavy springs, etc) he runs 10 seconds slower a lap, and it looks like he is driving 10 seconds faster a lap. its not him, its the set up and he is and has chnaged things since then.
a lot of race teams have gone softer over the years. it can make the cars handle better. but, you are right , it can be all relative. However, i try not to re invent the wheel. when i found out how fast mark was running, i tried to do what he did and then , try to improve from there , since i didnt have the Hp he did.

Hilton

use the ignore list

Carl Fausett

This PRO Competition Suspension Package has now had two race weekends on it, 8 race sessions, each about 30 minutes in length. About 4 hours of racing.

Post-race inspection shows the kit is performing as intended, and the results in the car were fantastic. There are no issues with clanking, noise, loose fittings, or anything. Ride height was easily adjustable and was changed several times during these weekends.

Additionally, we took the springs in and out several times to adjust the spring rates as we pleased and to inspect the units, and found that to be simple, taking about 15 minutes a corner to remove and replace the coil springs.

I have a very nice HQ video up so you can ride along at Putnam Park during the GTS (German Touring Sedan) race and watch and listen. Turn your speakers up! :-)

fbarnhill

Thanks for the vid Carl. I enjoied it very much. I don't get to do enough of that myself so it is nice when you guys post these things. Looks like the car performed well. He held some lines that I didnt think he was going to make. Also looks like he feasted on BMW's all day.

dcrasta

Carl, your car looks and sounds amazing. Congrats on your products. I dont race 928s but if I did I would be all over your products!.