New Crankshafts
#196
Race Director
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Back on crankshafts
This has me thinking....I know automatics have an upper RPM limit where the torque converter stops working.....I've heard anything from 6500 to 7000rpm.... SO how fast can a 928 automatic turn and not break the torque converter....a great question for this thread, since we now have the ability to reliaby turn higher RPM...... No sense building an engine that can turn 8k, if the trans can only take 6.5
This has me thinking....I know automatics have an upper RPM limit where the torque converter stops working.....I've heard anything from 6500 to 7000rpm.... SO how fast can a 928 automatic turn and not break the torque converter....a great question for this thread, since we now have the ability to reliaby turn higher RPM...... No sense building an engine that can turn 8k, if the trans can only take 6.5
#197
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This comment is in line with the original idea of the thread, so I consider it on topic:
Rational thought tells us that we need to figure out what our goals are. What is our purpose, or business case, if you will, for doing something. What do we want the end result to be?
In Racing, the only goal is to win. There is no other goal. The top racing drivers (in the REAL sports, like F1, Le Mans, and our own DP races, only wish to win. They are not happy with third, or even second.
Only winning.
So - what do we need to do to win? It may be to build a better motor. Or cams, or suspension. It may be to even use a different driving technique. The car is simply a tool. The mechanics are other tools. For a team, a driver is just a tool as well. A tool to be used for the purpose of winning.
The driver's responsibility, as Greg pointed out, is simply to drive, and the mechanics and engineers to build a car that suits their style, as long as that style ends up winning.
If a race is 75 laps, and the driver drives to make it last 76, he is not using his tools properly. If he drives and wins in 75 laps and the car is used up, it does not (or should not) matter. No one wins awards for driving nicely. They win awards for... winning.
Greg is making pieces that are tools for someone that wishes to have the engines last - and in the extremity of the point - to win. That is all. And it is rational and logical to do so. Any superfluous argument about how one or another can make lesser pieces "last" longer does not matter. The point is being missed. All that resides down that path is ego - and ego has no real purpose or place in the true path to winning. It usually simply lays in the middle of the road, distracting and stupidly questioning others - as it has here.
No one is racing automatics, really, except you and a few open-roaders.
Rational thought tells us that we need to figure out what our goals are. What is our purpose, or business case, if you will, for doing something. What do we want the end result to be?
In Racing, the only goal is to win. There is no other goal. The top racing drivers (in the REAL sports, like F1, Le Mans, and our own DP races, only wish to win. They are not happy with third, or even second.
Only winning.
So - what do we need to do to win? It may be to build a better motor. Or cams, or suspension. It may be to even use a different driving technique. The car is simply a tool. The mechanics are other tools. For a team, a driver is just a tool as well. A tool to be used for the purpose of winning.
The driver's responsibility, as Greg pointed out, is simply to drive, and the mechanics and engineers to build a car that suits their style, as long as that style ends up winning.
If a race is 75 laps, and the driver drives to make it last 76, he is not using his tools properly. If he drives and wins in 75 laps and the car is used up, it does not (or should not) matter. No one wins awards for driving nicely. They win awards for... winning.
Greg is making pieces that are tools for someone that wishes to have the engines last - and in the extremity of the point - to win. That is all. And it is rational and logical to do so. Any superfluous argument about how one or another can make lesser pieces "last" longer does not matter. The point is being missed. All that resides down that path is ego - and ego has no real purpose or place in the true path to winning. It usually simply lays in the middle of the road, distracting and stupidly questioning others - as it has here.
Back on crankshafts
This has me thinking....I know automatics have an upper RPM limit where the torque converter stops working.....I've heard anything from 6500 to 7000rpm.... SO how fast can a 928 automatic turn and not break the torque converter....a great question for this thread, since we now have the ability to reliaby turn higher RPM...... No sense building an engine that can turn 8k, if the trans can only take 6.5
This has me thinking....I know automatics have an upper RPM limit where the torque converter stops working.....I've heard anything from 6500 to 7000rpm.... SO how fast can a 928 automatic turn and not break the torque converter....a great question for this thread, since we now have the ability to reliaby turn higher RPM...... No sense building an engine that can turn 8k, if the trans can only take 6.5
#198
Race Director
#199
#200
Former Sponsor
Thread Starter
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Back on crankshafts
This has me thinking....I know automatics have an upper RPM limit where the torque converter stops working.....I've heard anything from 6500 to 7000rpm.... SO how fast can a 928 automatic turn and not break the torque converter....a great question for this thread, since we now have the ability to reliaby turn higher RPM...... No sense building an engine that can turn 8k, if the trans can only take 6.5
This has me thinking....I know automatics have an upper RPM limit where the torque converter stops working.....I've heard anything from 6500 to 7000rpm.... SO how fast can a 928 automatic turn and not break the torque converter....a great question for this thread, since we now have the ability to reliaby turn higher RPM...... No sense building an engine that can turn 8k, if the trans can only take 6.5
I have a "street" Nova that has a Powerglide in it that I spin to 7,000. I only stop there because it's a 540 cubic inch Big Block and it just doesn't seem like I need to spin it any harder.
People with "Small Blocks" routinely spin automatics well into the 8,000 rpm range.
Guess we will find out about the Mercedes automatics.
#201
Rennlist Member
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I don't think there is a particular rpm issue, unless you're assuming more rpm = more power. Then the usual power related failure modes come in, like overheating, blade failure, ballooning etc.
I would think Andy's 928 is probably the highest power ever put through the 928 auto 'box.
Ah ! I forgot Brett's 2000HP 200MPH Euro S2 which is an auto :-)
I would think Andy's 928 is probably the highest power ever put through the 928 auto 'box.
Ah ! I forgot Brett's 2000HP 200MPH Euro S2 which is an auto :-)
Back on crankshafts
This has me thinking....I know automatics have an upper RPM limit where the torque converter stops working.....I've heard anything from 6500 to 7000rpm.... SO how fast can a 928 automatic turn and not break the torque converter....a great question for this thread, since we now have the ability to reliaby turn higher RPM...... No sense building an engine that can turn 8k, if the trans can only take 6.5
This has me thinking....I know automatics have an upper RPM limit where the torque converter stops working.....I've heard anything from 6500 to 7000rpm.... SO how fast can a 928 automatic turn and not break the torque converter....a great question for this thread, since we now have the ability to reliaby turn higher RPM...... No sense building an engine that can turn 8k, if the trans can only take 6.5
#202
Administrator - "Tyson"
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The other two run on DOT drag radials in the rear.
The only modification Todd has made to his auto's is adjusting them to shift harder.
And fluids from here:
http://www.lelubricants.com/transmission-fluids.html
The turbo doesn't have a gear vendor OD like the supercharged car.
He is looking into upgrading the torque tube.
#205
Rennlist Member
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This comment is in line with the original idea of the thread, so I consider it on topic:
Rational thought tells us that we need to figure out what our goals are. What is our purpose, or business case, if you will, for doing something. What do we want the end result to be?
In Racing, the only goal is to win. There is no other goal. The top racing drivers (in the REAL sports, like F1, Le Mans, and our own DP races, only wish to win. They are not happy with third, or even second.
Only winning.
So - what do we need to do to win? It may be to build a better motor. Or cams, or suspension. It may be to even use a different driving technique. The car is simply a tool. The mechanics are other tools. For a team, a driver is just a tool as well. A tool to be used for the purpose of winning.
The driver's responsibility, as Greg pointed out, is simply to drive, and the mechanics and engineers to build a car that suits their style, as long as that style ends up winning.
If a race is 75 laps, and the driver drives to make it last 76, he is not using his tools properly. If he drives and wins in 75 laps and the car is used up, it does not (or should not) matter. No one wins awards for driving nicely. They win awards for... winning.
Greg is making pieces that are tools for someone that wishes to have the engines last - and in the extremity of the point - to win. That is all. And it is rational and logical to do so. Any superfluous argument about how one or another can make lesser pieces "last" longer does not matter. The point is being missed. All that resides down that path is ego - and ego has no real purpose or place in the true path to winning. It usually simply lays in the middle of the road, distracting and stupidly questioning others - as it has here.
Rational thought tells us that we need to figure out what our goals are. What is our purpose, or business case, if you will, for doing something. What do we want the end result to be?
In Racing, the only goal is to win. There is no other goal. The top racing drivers (in the REAL sports, like F1, Le Mans, and our own DP races, only wish to win. They are not happy with third, or even second.
Only winning.
So - what do we need to do to win? It may be to build a better motor. Or cams, or suspension. It may be to even use a different driving technique. The car is simply a tool. The mechanics are other tools. For a team, a driver is just a tool as well. A tool to be used for the purpose of winning.
The driver's responsibility, as Greg pointed out, is simply to drive, and the mechanics and engineers to build a car that suits their style, as long as that style ends up winning.
If a race is 75 laps, and the driver drives to make it last 76, he is not using his tools properly. If he drives and wins in 75 laps and the car is used up, it does not (or should not) matter. No one wins awards for driving nicely. They win awards for... winning.
Greg is making pieces that are tools for someone that wishes to have the engines last - and in the extremity of the point - to win. That is all. And it is rational and logical to do so. Any superfluous argument about how one or another can make lesser pieces "last" longer does not matter. The point is being missed. All that resides down that path is ego - and ego has no real purpose or place in the true path to winning. It usually simply lays in the middle of the road, distracting and stupidly questioning others - as it has here.
Now, there is nothing wrong with making stuff better. Im not arguing that point in my rants before, i was only stating that if the 928 is taken care of, it can be rung out at the track, using all that it has and by the way, that can be done in a way that leaves some car left over for the next weekend. coicidnetaly enough, most the time the fastest drivers are the ones that are the easiest on the equipment. (not always, sometimes).
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#206
Race Director
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Okay seriously............here is my offer to YOU..... COME DRIVE MY AUTOMATIC RACE 928.... YES automatics have all this "drama" around them....but the reality is they WORK...
FLY up to Sacramento.....sign up for a track day, say the NCRC track weekend April 7-8, with a few other race 928's and you can DRIVE my 928 on track....I am 100% sure you will be impressed and walk away with a
![hiha](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/roflmao.gif)
![hiha](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/roflmao.gif)
My only caveat is you must have prior DE-track day experience, since my car has no passenger seat or otherwise known as no instructor....
![ducking](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/icon107.gif)
Don't knock the slushbox until you try it....
#207
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BRANDON
Okay seriously............here is my offer to YOU..... COME DRIVE MY AUTOMATIC RACE 928.... YES automatics have all this "drama" around them....but the reality is they WORK...
FLY up to Sacramento.....sign up for a track day, say the NCRC track weekend April 7-8, with a few other race 928's and you can DRIVE my 928 on track....I am 100% sure you will be impressed and walk away with a![hiha](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/roflmao.gif)
Everyone who ever has driven my car loves it....nearly every race 928 owner on the west coast can't be wrong.... I stand by my prior comment of any driver-any track...keep it under 6000 and it will live...
My only caveat is you must have prior DE-track day experience, since my car has no passenger seat or otherwise known as no instructor....![ducking](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/icon107.gif)
Don't knock the slushbox until you try it....
Okay seriously............here is my offer to YOU..... COME DRIVE MY AUTOMATIC RACE 928.... YES automatics have all this "drama" around them....but the reality is they WORK...
FLY up to Sacramento.....sign up for a track day, say the NCRC track weekend April 7-8, with a few other race 928's and you can DRIVE my 928 on track....I am 100% sure you will be impressed and walk away with a
![hiha](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/roflmao.gif)
![hiha](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/roflmao.gif)
My only caveat is you must have prior DE-track day experience, since my car has no passenger seat or otherwise known as no instructor....
![ducking](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/icon107.gif)
Don't knock the slushbox until you try it....
![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
![Cheers](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/beerchug.gif)
Seriously - I had purchased an auto for racing another 928 I had on the side - like a cheap one that would be a throw away. I had all the parts to do so. But I had not driven an auto for a while. During that time, I bought/sold an automatic S4, and boy - it reminded me how much I hate autos. Truly hate them - on the street. Obviously I have no driven them on track since I have only had 5spds to go to willow springs (big and Streets) as well as fontana and (cough) parking lot auto-x.
Professionally? No Mark, and neither do you.
#208
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Thread Starter
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I'm guessing an "active" shift point at 7,600-7,800 and a limiter at 8,000-8,200.
#209
Three Wheelin'
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark kibort
you must not race.
Quote:
Orginally Posted by BC
Professionally? No Mark, and neither do you.
Whooooooooo........Slice AND Dice!
Originally Posted by mark kibort
you must not race.
Quote:
Orginally Posted by BC
Professionally? No Mark, and neither do you.
Whooooooooo........Slice AND Dice!
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