New Crankshafts
02-21-2012, 10:00 PM
#181
02-21-2012, 10:28 PM
#182
Former Sponsor
Thread Starter
then, there must be a reason, because it span for over more than 5 engines all running extremely hard at the track in all conditions and speeds. the only think i havent done is open road racing where this might be a problem, but, keep in mind, i have no breathers, no extra oil coolers, no mods what so ever. scot doesnt even have a factory oil cooler . you see all my rear cam video, ever see a puff of smoke? yet, you hear the rev limiter getting hit occasionally! 
No spacers, no baffels, no old pickups, etc etc.
1:36.1 and beating the GMG Sofro GT3 race car conversion on slicks to boot with a mild pro at the wheel. just maybe you might want to look closer at what im doing instead of calling it voodo
and by the way, ive dont nothing much differnet than Joe has done with your build cars too. yet, how many things that were modded were pulled off and gone back to stock?? (besides your engine mods of course)
No spacers, no baffels, no old pickups, etc etc.
1:36.1 and beating the GMG Sofro GT3 race car conversion on slicks to boot with a mild pro at the wheel. just maybe you might want to look closer at what im doing instead of calling it voodo
and by the way, ive dont nothing much differnet than Joe has done with your build cars too. yet, how many things that were modded were pulled off and gone back to stock??
(besides your engine mods of course)I've been racing my entire life, been around guys that drive race cars my entire life....
I've yet to find a driver that didn't think he was the fastest thing since a steering wheel was invented....regardless of how good they really are.
I don't care about how fast anyone is, at their "home track". You turn enough laps somewhere and you know where the car needs to be, to turn the fastest laps. It's called "practice". You drag your *** down here to Willow, or Fontana and run the times that the GT3 cars are running...then you've got credibility.
Until then...lots and lots of laps on a home track...makes anyone fast.
Look Mark....
I'm not going to debate the benefits of what I'm doing with you, any longer.
There's absolutely no point. I've yet to see you ever conceed a point, here on Rennlist, and I have no expectations of ever seeing that happen.
Perhaps what I'm doing has no application, in your world. I can live with that.
But more importantly, I simply don't care, at this point.
I'm going to do it anyway.
And regardless of what you think...
I will make 928s go faster and last longer.
02-21-2012, 11:48 PM
#183
Doing some reading and found this post in the thread about installing the donated stroker short block. Mark on July 03 2008 states.. That for the LAST 8 races he was shifting at redline and getting used to that sound.
Which means before that he short shifted and held the RPMs down. He commented that in the video he attached you could easily hear the difference.
Maybe that is the Magic Dust, keep the RPMs down carry a taller gear into the corner and short shift. Nothing wrong with that.
Which means before that he short shifted and held the RPMs down. He commented that in the video he attached you could easily hear the difference.
Maybe that is the Magic Dust, keep the RPMs down carry a taller gear into the corner and short shift. Nothing wrong with that.
02-22-2012, 03:06 AM
#184
Rennlist Member
Doing some reading and found this post in the thread about installing the donated stroker short block. Mark on July 03 2008 states.. That for the LAST 8 races he was shifting at redline and getting used to that sound.
Which means before that he short shifted and held the RPMs down. He commented that in the video he attached you could easily hear the difference.
Maybe that is the Magic Dust, keep the RPMs down carry a taller gear into the corner and short shift. Nothing wrong with that.
Which means before that he short shifted and held the RPMs down. He commented that in the video he attached you could easily hear the difference.
Maybe that is the Magic Dust, keep the RPMs down carry a taller gear into the corner and short shift. Nothing wrong with that.
The holbert stroker with its flat HP curve didnt require shifting at 6600rpm to make max acceleration it also was very close to evening up the performance even if you shifted at 6400rpm.
The point is, by understanding the HP curve, gear spacing and the track as welll as conserving the car when its not needed to be beat upon, you will make the race car last longer. The best in the business are good at this anyone can drive a fast lap time. What greg fails to understand, its the decisions you make on the track that makes you a good racer, not just running the snot out of the car. For the same lap time, some will be much harder on a car, and some will make it fail.
Mark:
I've been racing my entire life, been around guys that drive race cars my entire life....
I've yet to find a driver that didn't think he was the fastest thing since a steering wheel was invented....regardless of how good they really are.
I don't care about how fast anyone is, at their "home track". You turn enough laps somewhere and you know where the car needs to be, to turn the fastest laps. It's called "practice". You drag your *** down here to Willow, or Fontana and run the times that the GT3 cars are running...then you've got credibility.
Until then...lots and lots of laps on a home track...makes anyone fast.
Look Mark....
I'm not going to debate the benefits of what I'm doing with you, any longer.
There's absolutely no point. I've yet to see you ever conceed a point, here on Rennlist, and I have no expectations of ever seeing that happen.
Perhaps what I'm doing has no application, in your world. I can live with that.
But more importantly, I simply don't care, at this point.
I'm going to do it anyway.
And regardless of what you think...
I will make 928s go faster and last longer.
I've been racing my entire life, been around guys that drive race cars my entire life....
I've yet to find a driver that didn't think he was the fastest thing since a steering wheel was invented....regardless of how good they really are.
I don't care about how fast anyone is, at their "home track". You turn enough laps somewhere and you know where the car needs to be, to turn the fastest laps. It's called "practice". You drag your *** down here to Willow, or Fontana and run the times that the GT3 cars are running...then you've got credibility.
Until then...lots and lots of laps on a home track...makes anyone fast.
Look Mark....
I'm not going to debate the benefits of what I'm doing with you, any longer.
There's absolutely no point. I've yet to see you ever conceed a point, here on Rennlist, and I have no expectations of ever seeing that happen.
Perhaps what I'm doing has no application, in your world. I can live with that.
But more importantly, I simply don't care, at this point.
I'm going to do it anyway.
And regardless of what you think...
I will make 928s go faster and last longer.
what happened in the rain at the GTGP. I even beat anderson in the rain, rememeber?
my 1:36.1 at laguna is on par with the times at any of the tracks i run, and will be the same if i go to willow springs, fontana or any other track. If you have been around some of the skilled racers for a long time as you say, you should know this. I think its pretty neat to see the POC guys that i ran against at their home track and started matcing their times in the same class after that "practice" you say. i also loved to see them flounder for about a weekend or so, before the got the hang of our tracks up here. in the end, we all shake out the same where the car's differnces separate us by time.
I only mention time, to show that im running the car hard and probably near its limits, as i wouldnt normally think a car like mine should hold a candle to a seasoned pro like max angeleli , in a stockGT3 on DOTs, 30 years newer, with a car like mine, bult by me, with 20 year old shocks, aliged with a magic marker, and on used tires from the garbage can, but it did!
with all the BS that is talked about the "racing world" as you have been around , you should know by now, that .......
new slicks, 2 seconds, a moton shock package , 1 second, tuned by the experts, 1 second, better aero 1 second, a "real " pro driver , "2" seconds, lightweight rotating assembly 1 second, 150lb lighter , 1 second , would put my 370 rwhp at a time at laguna of........ 1:36.1 d6wn to a 1:27.1 which was the winning time a few years ago for ALMS GT2, and it would be near 4 seconds faster than anderson. So, I think i have a grip of what makes cars go faster and by how much, so dont believe all the BS and realize that most any decent driver can spin a good lap time after a few days on a track anywhere.
"credibility" in my book is driving a car faster than it should be driven.
Ill come down to Willow and run exactly what my car should run. 1:27 at willow springs and 1:50 at the big track.
you dont think im beating on the car hard, after you know how fast the "good" drivers have run much higher hp cars, then thats your own perception. but in the end, i challenge you to find someone that can run 1:36.1 at laguna with that weight , HP, tire and lack of modern technology. If it has been done,, or is done, I can appreciate it and will give credit where credit is due. One of my most respected drivers is a guy that runs an old RX7. heck, Bobcat would be a guy that i would put against anyone in the rain and I told him if he ever ran a rain WC touring car race, i woud give him money to run!
02-22-2012, 01:00 PM
#185
Former Sponsor
Thread Starter
running GT3 cup times doesnt give you credibility unless you do it in a cup car against your peers. the car i ran against was a GT3 racer, not a cup car, but near cup car speck of the older models. keep in mind, you have to look at what i was driving vs this 100k plus professionally built racer, 20 years newer and on real racing tires. My admairation goes to those, like Anderson and a few others, that drive cars that most anyone else would drive slower.
what happened in the rain at the GTGP. I even beat anderson in the rain, rememeber?
my 1:36.1 at laguna is on par with the times at any of the tracks i run, and will be the same if i go to willow springs, fontana or any other track. If you have been around some of the skilled racers for a long time as you say, you should know this. I think its pretty neat to see the POC guys that i ran against at their home track and started matcing their times in the same class after that "practice" you say. i also loved to see them flounder for about a weekend or so, before the got the hang of our tracks up here. in the end, we all shake out the same where the car's differnces separate us by time.
I only mention time, to show that im running the car hard and probably near its limits, as i wouldnt normally think a car like mine should hold a candle to a seasoned pro like max angeleli , in a stockGT3 on DOTs, 30 years newer, with a car like mine, bult by me, with 20 year old shocks, aliged with a magic marker, and on used tires from the garbage can, but it did!
with all the BS that is talked about the "racing world" as you have been around , you should know by now, that .......
new slicks, 2 seconds, a moton shock package , 1 second, tuned by the experts, 1 second, better aero 1 second, a "real " pro driver , "2" seconds, lightweight rotating assembly 1 second, 150lb lighter , 1 second , would put my 370 rwhp at a time at laguna of........ 1:36.1 d6wn to a 1:27.1 which was the winning time a few years ago for ALMS GT2, and it would be near 4 seconds faster than anderson. So, I think i have a grip of what makes cars go faster and by how much, so dont believe all the BS and realize that most any decent driver can spin a good lap time after a few days on a track anywhere.
"credibility" in my book is driving a car faster than it should be driven.
Ill come down to Willow and run exactly what my car should run. 1:27 at willow springs and 1:50 at the big track.
you dont think im beating on the car hard, after you know how fast the "good" drivers have run much higher hp cars, then thats your own perception. but in the end, i challenge you to find someone that can run 1:36.1 at laguna with that weight , HP, tire and lack of modern technology. If it has been done,, or is done, I can appreciate it and will give credit where credit is due. One of my most respected drivers is a guy that runs an old RX7. heck, Bobcat would be a guy that i would put against anyone in the rain and I told him if he ever ran a rain WC touring car race, i woud give him money to run!
what happened in the rain at the GTGP. I even beat anderson in the rain, rememeber?
my 1:36.1 at laguna is on par with the times at any of the tracks i run, and will be the same if i go to willow springs, fontana or any other track. If you have been around some of the skilled racers for a long time as you say, you should know this. I think its pretty neat to see the POC guys that i ran against at their home track and started matcing their times in the same class after that "practice" you say. i also loved to see them flounder for about a weekend or so, before the got the hang of our tracks up here. in the end, we all shake out the same where the car's differnces separate us by time.
I only mention time, to show that im running the car hard and probably near its limits, as i wouldnt normally think a car like mine should hold a candle to a seasoned pro like max angeleli , in a stockGT3 on DOTs, 30 years newer, with a car like mine, bult by me, with 20 year old shocks, aliged with a magic marker, and on used tires from the garbage can, but it did!
with all the BS that is talked about the "racing world" as you have been around , you should know by now, that .......
new slicks, 2 seconds, a moton shock package , 1 second, tuned by the experts, 1 second, better aero 1 second, a "real " pro driver , "2" seconds, lightweight rotating assembly 1 second, 150lb lighter , 1 second , would put my 370 rwhp at a time at laguna of........ 1:36.1 d6wn to a 1:27.1 which was the winning time a few years ago for ALMS GT2, and it would be near 4 seconds faster than anderson. So, I think i have a grip of what makes cars go faster and by how much, so dont believe all the BS and realize that most any decent driver can spin a good lap time after a few days on a track anywhere.
"credibility" in my book is driving a car faster than it should be driven.
Ill come down to Willow and run exactly what my car should run. 1:27 at willow springs and 1:50 at the big track.
you dont think im beating on the car hard, after you know how fast the "good" drivers have run much higher hp cars, then thats your own perception. but in the end, i challenge you to find someone that can run 1:36.1 at laguna with that weight , HP, tire and lack of modern technology. If it has been done,, or is done, I can appreciate it and will give credit where credit is due. One of my most respected drivers is a guy that runs an old RX7. heck, Bobcat would be a guy that i would put against anyone in the rain and I told him if he ever ran a rain WC touring car race, i woud give him money to run!
Would you quit pounding your chest if I simply said you were the best driver, ever?
02-22-2012, 01:18 PM
#186
Former Sponsor
Thread Starter
What you don't understand is that if I was to build engines that only you could drive and make survive...I'd have the same reputation as those that have miserably failed at the 928 performance business.....really bad....which has really hurt the 928 image, overall.
Instead, aside from engines that have worn out from extrememly high hours, or engines that have failed from driver error (super high rpm issues), every single one of my stroker engines run.
They run and survive because I'm constantly improving them, when I see weak areas....instead of accepting the flaws and shifting at 6,400 rpms.
02-22-2012, 01:52 PM
#187
Race Director
No, I understand that completely. I've literally had some of the very best "sport car drivers" in the world, drive the cars I'm responsible for. People that can drive super fast and still make a car last for 4, 12, or 24 hours. I've also had drivers that can completely ruin an engine and transmission in 50 minutes. My racing experience goes a bit farther than a few "home tracks" scattered in the "bay area". I've seen the very bad and I've seen the very good...first hand.
What you don't understand is that if I was to build engines that only you could drive and make survive...I'd have the same reputation as those that have miserably failed at the 928 performance business.....really bad....which has really hurt the 928 image, overall.
Instead, aside from engines that have worn out from extrememly high hours, or engines that have failed from driver error (super high rpm issues), every single one of my stroker engines run.
They run and survive because I'm constantly improving them, when I see weak areas....instead of accepting the flaws and shifting at 6,400 rpms.
What you don't understand is that if I was to build engines that only you could drive and make survive...I'd have the same reputation as those that have miserably failed at the 928 performance business.....really bad....which has really hurt the 928 image, overall.
Instead, aside from engines that have worn out from extrememly high hours, or engines that have failed from driver error (super high rpm issues), every single one of my stroker engines run.
They run and survive because I'm constantly improving them, when I see weak areas....instead of accepting the flaws and shifting at 6,400 rpms.
While I respect Kibort as a driver, I do disagree with his opinions on 928 oiling systems....he has had great success & I did try to copy it (same for many others) and it didn't exactly work until I came up with the spacer + OB pan setup....
I also like the fact that my bucket can be driven by any driver on any track and live.....sure I have a 16V with no power, but keep it under 6k and I am 99% sure it will survive..... honestly I am waiting for oil analysis to come back with some type of bearing wear....but so far nothing
Since this thread is about your new crank design...I suggest we get back on topic of these new cranks and what type of engine-output we can achieve with this new design
02-22-2012, 02:04 PM
#188
Nordschleife Master
02-22-2012, 02:58 PM
#191
Former Sponsor
Thread Starter
Doc
While I respect Kibort as a driver, I do disagree with his opinions on 928 oiling systems....he has had great success & I did try to copy it (same for many others) and it didn't exactly work until I came up with the spacer + OB pan setup....
I also like the fact that my bucket can be driven by any driver on any track and live.....sure I have a 16V with no power, but keep it under 6k and I am 99% sure it will survive..... honestly I am waiting for oil analysis to come back with some type of bearing wear....but so far nothing
Since this thread is about your new crank design...I suggest we get back on topic of these new cranks and what type of engine-output we can achieve with this new design
While I respect Kibort as a driver, I do disagree with his opinions on 928 oiling systems....he has had great success & I did try to copy it (same for many others) and it didn't exactly work until I came up with the spacer + OB pan setup....
I also like the fact that my bucket can be driven by any driver on any track and live.....sure I have a 16V with no power, but keep it under 6k and I am 99% sure it will survive..... honestly I am waiting for oil analysis to come back with some type of bearing wear....but so far nothing
Since this thread is about your new crank design...I suggest we get back on topic of these new cranks and what type of engine-output we can achieve with this new design
When I ran Andy's engine, on the dyno, I saw many interesting things.
Obviously, I saw oil problems above 5500 rpms, which I made some major changes to solve.
However, I also saw horsepower that continued to build all the way to 7,200rpms. This is with fairly mild camshafts that were designed to work with an automatic transmission. The low end and mid range torque was very high, also. (High enough to spin the tires, at will). Obviously, a bigger camshaft could "move" that power range up another 800 rpms, while not "hurting" the torque significantly....perhaps making the entire engine/vehicle even more superior.
To do that requires different rotating pieces.
That's my path. Plus giving the guys that are having problems with bearings, rods, and crankshafts better pieces to work with. Plus giving people that have "early" engines another path. Plus giving the guys with 5.4 engines that need rods another option.
02-22-2012, 03:32 PM
#192
Under the Lift
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
From the first moment I watched Mark race at Thunderhill in 2002, I thought he was one of the "smoothest" drivers I had seen. VERY smooth, with no jerky, abrupt changes in direction, no sudden changes in braking and power inputs. If any one here has read Keith Code's "smooth" (motorcycle) racing technique in "A Twist of the Wrist", Mark must have. Mark, you are a very deliberate, controlled driver and that has paid off for you in getting around the track quickly without serious complications. It's somewhat unexpected to see how calmly you drive compared to your almost unbridled energy at other times. On the other hand, I rode with Dennis Kao once. What an E-ticket ride that was! Lots of dramatic changes and tire squealing. A hoot, but far more stressful on the car and the passenger. It may not be all that obvious. I had one friend, a very experienced racer, look at me a bit puzzled when I commented on how smooth you were, only to come back to me years later and finally acknowledged the difference between you and many other drivers and how it affects the survival of the car.
02-22-2012, 04:23 PM
#193
Rennlist Member
From the first moment I watched Mark race at Thunderhill in 2002, I thought he was one of the "smoothest" drivers I had seen. VERY smooth, with no jerky, abrupt changes in direction, no sudden changes in braking and power inputs. If any one here has read Keith Code's "smooth" (motorcycle) racing technique in "A Twist of the Wrist", Mark must have. Mark, you are a very deliberate, controlled driver and that has paid off for you in getting around the track quickly without serious complications. It's somewhat unexpected to see how calmly you drive compared to your almost unbridled energy at other times. On the other hand, I rode with Dennis Kao once. What an E-ticket ride that was! Lots of dramatic changes and tire squealing. A hoot, but far more stressful on the car and the passenger. It may not be all that obvious. I had one friend, a very experienced racer, look at me a bit puzzled when I commented on how smooth you were, only to come back to me years later and finally acknowledged the difference between you and many other drivers and how it affects the survival of the car.
Brian on the other hand has had bad luck because he had beat up cars to start with and one he tried to run without oil for a while during a lemons race (not to mention the wesson oil he was adding to missing amsoil
. he fianlly got a decent engine and is beating on it now, but i dont think its survival is due to the old style oiling or the pan spacer. proof that cars can last are in my car and in Scots. rememember he has been running for years too with no mods. but, does have a little breather issue, but not bad enough to really address.
02-22-2012, 04:29 PM
#194
Race Car
Mark
No one is saying you don't drive fast. They are saying that your driving technique is one of the major reasons why your 928 engines survive racing so long while others' 928 engines do not. It sounds to me from your above post that you agree with this.
Case closed. Now back to Greg's awesome engine parts.
Dan
'91 928GT S/C 475hp/460lb.ft
No one is saying you don't drive fast. They are saying that your driving technique is one of the major reasons why your 928 engines survive racing so long while others' 928 engines do not. It sounds to me from your above post that you agree with this.
Case closed. Now back to Greg's awesome engine parts.
Dan
'91 928GT S/C
475hp/460lb.ft
02-22-2012, 04:52 PM
#195
Nordschleife Master