S4 Budge stroke engine build question??
10-19-2011, 03:16 PM
#18
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10K, in parts, will not "get it done", especially when using ITB's. Throttle bodies, injection system changes, and air filters are going to challenge that budget all by themselves. Add in "appropriate camshafts" for use with ITB's and you will have exceeded your entire parts budget....before you have any of the stroker pieces....or any of the "normal pieces" required for a complete rebuild.
However, if you "align" your desired horsepower with your budget, you have a better chance of success. You don't need ITB's to make 400 horsepower. I've made engines with more than 425hp, at the rear wheels, with stock injection. Reconsider your goals and/or your budget.
New news:
I've "started over" on the entire 928 crankshaft design process. Just like the connecting rod issue (Chevy offset vs Porsche offset), the 928 crankshaft design (either stock or stroker) is many, many years old. We've been having the same Moldex crankshaft built for over 15 years.....and while it is a great crankshaft...it can be made better and lighter.
So, starting with a clean sheet of paper and one of the finest crank builders in this country, I've got an entire newly designed "group" of billet crankshafts currently being made. I'm having a lightweight 5.0 crankshaft made, already correctly drilled, for high performance use. Also being made is a 5.4 stroke crankshaft. It will be lighter, stiffer, stronger, and have "modern" oil drillings than the "stock" GTS crankshaft (which is getting very hard to find used and is very expensive new.) And, of course, I'm having built a "brand new design long stroke" crankshaft. Again, this crankshaft will be lighter, stronger, stiffer, and have "current" technology for the oil drillings.
In addition, I'll be offering connecting rods for each of the appropriate applications. I'm going to have rods for "stock stroke" use, to "match" with our new 5.0 crankshaft. Rods are being made in lengths to fit both 5.0 and 5.4 pistons using a GTS stroke crankshaft, and of course I will still have our proven rod design for use in the "long stroke" applications.
My goal is to have all of these pieces on the shelf and ready for use, at all times. I currently try to keep Moldex cranks and rods for stroker engines in stock.
Stay tuned...I've got an amazing amount of "new" high performance 928 pieces, in the works.
However, if you "align" your desired horsepower with your budget, you have a better chance of success. You don't need ITB's to make 400 horsepower. I've made engines with more than 425hp, at the rear wheels, with stock injection. Reconsider your goals and/or your budget.
New news:
I've "started over" on the entire 928 crankshaft design process. Just like the connecting rod issue (Chevy offset vs Porsche offset), the 928 crankshaft design (either stock or stroker) is many, many years old. We've been having the same Moldex crankshaft built for over 15 years.....and while it is a great crankshaft...it can be made better and lighter.
So, starting with a clean sheet of paper and one of the finest crank builders in this country, I've got an entire newly designed "group" of billet crankshafts currently being made. I'm having a lightweight 5.0 crankshaft made, already correctly drilled, for high performance use. Also being made is a 5.4 stroke crankshaft. It will be lighter, stiffer, stronger, and have "modern" oil drillings than the "stock" GTS crankshaft (which is getting very hard to find used and is very expensive new.) And, of course, I'm having built a "brand new design long stroke" crankshaft. Again, this crankshaft will be lighter, stronger, stiffer, and have "current" technology for the oil drillings.
In addition, I'll be offering connecting rods for each of the appropriate applications. I'm going to have rods for "stock stroke" use, to "match" with our new 5.0 crankshaft. Rods are being made in lengths to fit both 5.0 and 5.4 pistons using a GTS stroke crankshaft, and of course I will still have our proven rod design for use in the "long stroke" applications.
My goal is to have all of these pieces on the shelf and ready for use, at all times. I currently try to keep Moldex cranks and rods for stroker engines in stock.
Stay tuned...I've got an amazing amount of "new" high performance 928 pieces, in the works.
__________________
greg brown
714 879 9072
GregBBRD@aol.com
Semi-retired, as of Feb 1, 2023.
The days of free technical advice are over.
Free consultations will no longer be available.
Will still be in the shop, isolated and exclusively working on project cars, developmental work and products, engines and transmissions.
Have fun with your 928's people!
greg brown
714 879 9072
GregBBRD@aol.com
Semi-retired, as of Feb 1, 2023.
The days of free technical advice are over.
Free consultations will no longer be available.
Will still be in the shop, isolated and exclusively working on project cars, developmental work and products, engines and transmissions.
Have fun with your 928's people!
10-19-2011, 04:20 PM
#19
Race Director
10K, in parts, will not "get it done", especially when using ITB's. Throttle bodies, injection system changes, and air filters are going to challenge that budget all by themselves. Add in "appropriate camshafts" for use with ITB's and you will have exceeded your entire parts budget....before you have any of the stroker pieces....or any of the "normal pieces" required for a complete rebuild.
However, if you "align" your desired horsepower with your budget, you have a better chance of success. You don't need ITB's to make 400 horsepower. I've made engines with more than 425hp, at the rear wheels, with stock injection. Reconsider your goals and/or your budget.
New news:
I've "started over" on the entire 928 crankshaft design process. Just like the connecting rod issue (Chevy offset vs Porsche offset), the 928 crankshaft design (either stock or stroker) is many, many years old. We've been having the same Moldex crankshaft built for over 15 years.....and while it is a great crankshaft...it can be made better and lighter.
So, starting with a clean sheet of paper and one of the finest crank builders in this country, I've got an entire newly designed "group" of billet crankshafts currently being made. I'm having a lightweight 5.0 crankshaft made, already correctly drilled, for high performance use. Also being made is a 5.4 stroke crankshaft. It will be lighter, stiffer, stronger, and have "modern" oil drillings than the "stock" GTS crankshaft (which is getting very hard to find used and is very expensive new.) And, of course, I'm having built a "brand new design long stroke" crankshaft. Again, this crankshaft will be lighter, stronger, stiffer, and have "current" technology for the oil drillings.
In addition, I'll be offering connecting rods for each of the appropriate applications. I'm going to have rods for "stock stroke" use, to "match" with our new 5.0 crankshaft. Rods are being made in lengths to fit both 5.0 and 5.4 pistons using a GTS stroke crankshaft, and of course I will still have our proven rod design for use in the "long stroke" applications.
My goal is to have all of these pieces on the shelf and ready for use, at all times. I currently try to keep Moldex cranks and rods for stroker engines in stock.
Stay tuned...I've got an amazing amount of "new" high performance 928 pieces, in the works.
However, if you "align" your desired horsepower with your budget, you have a better chance of success. You don't need ITB's to make 400 horsepower. I've made engines with more than 425hp, at the rear wheels, with stock injection. Reconsider your goals and/or your budget.
New news:
I've "started over" on the entire 928 crankshaft design process. Just like the connecting rod issue (Chevy offset vs Porsche offset), the 928 crankshaft design (either stock or stroker) is many, many years old. We've been having the same Moldex crankshaft built for over 15 years.....and while it is a great crankshaft...it can be made better and lighter.
So, starting with a clean sheet of paper and one of the finest crank builders in this country, I've got an entire newly designed "group" of billet crankshafts currently being made. I'm having a lightweight 5.0 crankshaft made, already correctly drilled, for high performance use. Also being made is a 5.4 stroke crankshaft. It will be lighter, stiffer, stronger, and have "modern" oil drillings than the "stock" GTS crankshaft (which is getting very hard to find used and is very expensive new.) And, of course, I'm having built a "brand new design long stroke" crankshaft. Again, this crankshaft will be lighter, stronger, stiffer, and have "current" technology for the oil drillings.
In addition, I'll be offering connecting rods for each of the appropriate applications. I'm going to have rods for "stock stroke" use, to "match" with our new 5.0 crankshaft. Rods are being made in lengths to fit both 5.0 and 5.4 pistons using a GTS stroke crankshaft, and of course I will still have our proven rod design for use in the "long stroke" applications.
My goal is to have all of these pieces on the shelf and ready for use, at all times. I currently try to keep Moldex cranks and rods for stroker engines in stock.
Stay tuned...I've got an amazing amount of "new" high performance 928 pieces, in the works.
DROOL.............................................
Hmm....where did I put my new Visa Black credit card.......MUST NOT CALL Doc....must resist..............
10-19-2011, 04:29 PM
#20
10-19-2011, 05:28 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
"And, of course, I'm having built a "brand new design long stroke" crankshaft. Again, this crankshaft will be lighter, stronger, stiffer, and have "current" technology for the oil drillings."
Greg:
This makes me wonder...how LITTLE can one spend for displacement, to get the most out of an existing S4 motor?
Whats that build look like?
Greg:
This makes me wonder...how LITTLE can one spend for displacement, to get the most out of an existing S4 motor?
Whats that build look like?
10-19-2011, 05:32 PM
#23
Archive Gatekeeper
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Groovy, you'd mentioned the cranks but didn't realize they were moving ahead.
So what are the 'flavors' of engine you're envisioning? I am guessing (in order of devation from stock):
A. Stock block:
1. Stock 5 liter block and pistons, 5.0 crank (78.9 mm stroke) with oil mods, your rods. Basically a stock long block with better internals?
2. Stock 5 liter block, GTS pistons and rods, or 944S2 (944T?) pistons and rods, 5.4 crank (85.9 mm stroke). Basically a mini-stroker to update gamey GTS rods, or upgrade a stock 5L S4 motor?
Is it worth doing the head porting/big valves on both #1 and #2, just #2, ??? Colin's cams, GT cams? Where's the power bottleneck assuming a stock intake and stock valves?
B. Bored blocks:
3. 5 liter lock bored to 102 or 104 mm, Nikasil, stroker crank (95.25 mm), JE pistons, rods. I'd assume you need big valves to feed this displacement, no?
4. 5 liter lock bored to 104 mm, Nikasil, stroker crank (95.25 mm), JE pistons, rods, ITB's, full monty ORR/Track monsters.
4. What other permutations am I missing? Any 16V applications where a stroker crank makes any sense?
So what are the 'flavors' of engine you're envisioning? I am guessing (in order of devation from stock):
A. Stock block:
1. Stock 5 liter block and pistons, 5.0 crank (78.9 mm stroke) with oil mods, your rods. Basically a stock long block with better internals?
2. Stock 5 liter block, GTS pistons and rods, or 944S2 (944T?) pistons and rods, 5.4 crank (85.9 mm stroke). Basically a mini-stroker to update gamey GTS rods, or upgrade a stock 5L S4 motor?
Is it worth doing the head porting/big valves on both #1 and #2, just #2, ??? Colin's cams, GT cams? Where's the power bottleneck assuming a stock intake and stock valves?
B. Bored blocks:
3. 5 liter lock bored to 102 or 104 mm, Nikasil, stroker crank (95.25 mm), JE pistons, rods. I'd assume you need big valves to feed this displacement, no?
4. 5 liter lock bored to 104 mm, Nikasil, stroker crank (95.25 mm), JE pistons, rods, ITB's, full monty ORR/Track monsters.
4. What other permutations am I missing? Any 16V applications where a stroker crank makes any sense?
10-19-2011, 05:33 PM
#24
"And, of course, I'm having built a "brand new design long stroke" crankshaft. Again, this crankshaft will be lighter, stronger, stiffer, and have "current" technology for the oil drillings."
Greg:
This makes me wonder...how LITTLE can one spend for displacement, to get the most out of an existing S4 motor?
Whats that build look like?
Greg:
This makes me wonder...how LITTLE can one spend for displacement, to get the most out of an existing S4 motor?
Whats that build look like?
10-19-2011, 06:18 PM
#25
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New news:
I've "started over" on the entire 928 crankshaft design process. Just like the connecting rod issue (Chevy offset vs Porsche offset), the 928 crankshaft design (either stock or stroker) is many, many years old. We've been having the same Moldex crankshaft built for over 15 years.....and while it is a great crankshaft...it can be made better and lighter.
So, starting with a clean sheet of paper and one of the finest crank builders in this country, I've got an entire newly designed "group" of billet crankshafts currently being made. I'm having a lightweight 5.0 crankshaft made, already correctly drilled, for high performance use. Also being made is a 5.4 stroke crankshaft. It will be lighter, stiffer, stronger, and have "modern" oil drillings than the "stock" GTS crankshaft (which is getting very hard to find used and is very expensive new.) And, of course, I'm having built a "brand new design long stroke" crankshaft. Again, this crankshaft will be lighter, stronger, stiffer, and have "current" technology for the oil drillings.
In addition, I'll be offering connecting rods for each of the appropriate applications. I'm going to have rods for "stock stroke" use, to "match" with our new 5.0 crankshaft. Rods are being made in lengths to fit both 5.0 and 5.4 pistons using a GTS stroke crankshaft, and of course I will still have our proven rod design for use in the "long stroke" applications.
My goal is to have all of these pieces on the shelf and ready for use, at all times. I currently try to keep Moldex cranks and rods for stroker engines in stock.
Stay tuned...I've got an amazing amount of "new" high performance 928 pieces, in the works.
I've "started over" on the entire 928 crankshaft design process. Just like the connecting rod issue (Chevy offset vs Porsche offset), the 928 crankshaft design (either stock or stroker) is many, many years old. We've been having the same Moldex crankshaft built for over 15 years.....and while it is a great crankshaft...it can be made better and lighter.
So, starting with a clean sheet of paper and one of the finest crank builders in this country, I've got an entire newly designed "group" of billet crankshafts currently being made. I'm having a lightweight 5.0 crankshaft made, already correctly drilled, for high performance use. Also being made is a 5.4 stroke crankshaft. It will be lighter, stiffer, stronger, and have "modern" oil drillings than the "stock" GTS crankshaft (which is getting very hard to find used and is very expensive new.) And, of course, I'm having built a "brand new design long stroke" crankshaft. Again, this crankshaft will be lighter, stronger, stiffer, and have "current" technology for the oil drillings.
In addition, I'll be offering connecting rods for each of the appropriate applications. I'm going to have rods for "stock stroke" use, to "match" with our new 5.0 crankshaft. Rods are being made in lengths to fit both 5.0 and 5.4 pistons using a GTS stroke crankshaft, and of course I will still have our proven rod design for use in the "long stroke" applications.
My goal is to have all of these pieces on the shelf and ready for use, at all times. I currently try to keep Moldex cranks and rods for stroker engines in stock.
Stay tuned...I've got an amazing amount of "new" high performance 928 pieces, in the works.
10-20-2011, 10:21 AM
#28
Rennlist Member
10-20-2011, 10:44 AM
#29
Administrator - "Tyson"
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Not necessarily:
http://www.katechengines.com/perform...gine-packages/
For something on par with one of Greg's engines:
Track Attack LS7
Bore: 4.125”
Stroke: 4.000”
Displacement: 427ci/7.0L
Horsepower: 650
Torque: 570
Redline: 7000RPM
CR: 12.0-14.0:1
Block: LS7 aluminum with billet main caps, ARP studs, piston squirters, optional RHS block for extreme duty conditions
Crankshaft: 4340 forged steel with ATI damper
Connecting rods: Forged H-beam steel
Pistons: 2618 forged aluminum with DLC-coated pins
Camshaft: GM Stage 3
Cylinder heads: CNC-ported LS7 with bronze valve guides, ARP studs
Valves: LS7 titanium intake, hollow sodium-filled exhaust
Induction: FAST LSXR 102mm
Oiling system: ARE Stage 3 with Katech HCS/HCP (red) pump
Price: $18,403 with supplied LS7 or $30,403 as a crate engine
http://www.katechengines.com/perform...gine-packages/
For something on par with one of Greg's engines:
Track Attack LS7
Bore: 4.125”
Stroke: 4.000”
Displacement: 427ci/7.0L
Horsepower: 650
Torque: 570
Redline: 7000RPM
CR: 12.0-14.0:1
Block: LS7 aluminum with billet main caps, ARP studs, piston squirters, optional RHS block for extreme duty conditions
Crankshaft: 4340 forged steel with ATI damper
Connecting rods: Forged H-beam steel
Pistons: 2618 forged aluminum with DLC-coated pins
Camshaft: GM Stage 3
Cylinder heads: CNC-ported LS7 with bronze valve guides, ARP studs
Valves: LS7 titanium intake, hollow sodium-filled exhaust
Induction: FAST LSXR 102mm
Oiling system: ARE Stage 3 with Katech HCS/HCP (red) pump
Price: $18,403 with supplied LS7 or $30,403 as a crate engine
10-20-2011, 11:08 AM
#30
Three Wheelin'
Not necessarily:
http://www.katechengines.com/perform...gine-packages/
For something on par with one of Greg's engines:
Track Attack LS7
http://www.katechengines.com/perform...gine-packages/
For something on par with one of Greg's engines:
Track Attack LS7
That's like a glorified lawnmower engine. It's good that there's an army of LSx fanbois to shout the cheap and easy praises because having 2 valves and pushrods is a real disadvantage.