mickster

SSD!! That will push the system to $$$$.

dprantl

Actually, I put a 64GB SSD into my carputer umpc and it was only ~$100. Yeah, it's MLC but it's still very fast.

Dan
'91 928GT S/C 475hp/460lb.ft

Tom928

Some points on installing PC motherboards & HDD's into cars;

1) Power - most motherboards require several amps of current from the power supply. Car alternators (usually) do not have the capabilities to supply the car, stereo and a PC motherboard that requires several amps continuous for all the different voltages required to run the board. Also most boards have a low power mode (standby), that when power is removed it still has a significant power drain. This is ~350mA; however, it could be capable of draining the battery in a few hours. What is your power solution?

2) Thermal - Motherboards are usually spec'd at 80 degrees maximum. Mounting the board behind the console will subject it to the heat inside the dash that will likely exceed 80 degrees. This will require a cooling solution that provides at least ~300 LFM across the CPU heatsink to keep the processor from going into thermal overload. What is you solution for cooling the board?

3) Regulatory - installing a motherboard into a chassis and selling it to the public as "system" will require you to pass FCC part 15 for emissions. This usually requires a metal "cover" that encapsulates the entire system. What is you solution to pass FCC or are you planning not to test?

4) Storage - Hard drives are notoriously sensitive to being dropped or bumped around. Driving around over hard bumps can easily cause the HDD heads to crash into the surface. I would suggest using Solid State Drives (SSD's) instead, or did I miss something and this is part of the design?

Several companies have tried to use conventional motherboards/HDD's for cars and have not been entirely successful. Reliability is the key factor and is why most car companies design special memory based computers for cars.

Also, MS Windows is the computer hackers OS of choice. How will you address a virus that gets into the system from a USB drive (I presume you will be offering all the interfaces of the MB's) or DVD?

Cheers,

LightStriker

Or if you can pack stuff under 16-32 Gig, you can go for some flash drive. Same as SSD, but smaller in storage capacity and in $$$!

As for Windows, I'm sure there's some car custom Linux free package around.

rayfinkel

This is sweet!
I see your point on not needing a DVD drive but I would still want one somewhere. I agree about the clean look you are going for.
Are you going to have USB ports on the dash for memory sticks and other component hook ups? I personally would like at least 1 for quick interface.

Cheers,
Allen T.
89 hybrid 5speed

hans14914

Tom,

You have some good valid points. I will address them in response to your bullitens in kind:

1) Power - This is actually an easy solution for us at this point in time. There are several companies that make automotive grade PC powersupplies. I have chosen to recommend the MiniBox brand, specifically the M3-ATX and M2-ATX when additional power is needed. There are other makes/models, and if you choose to use a diferent one, you would only need to provide your own mounting solution. I like the Opus supplies, but they were too large to fit inside the console.

2) Thermal - While historically true, PCs used to be monstrous machines, but with the focus on green computing, Intel has blessed us with the "Atom" line of processors. The board I am recommending consumes around 25w, so the thermal load isnt what it once was. More efficient boards are available if necessary. Many current manufactures using Atom based configurations do not include fans at all, and have no heat problems at all. If a customer chose to use a Core2Duo or other high output processor, thermal and power requirements would need to be re-evaluated.

3) Regulatory - I was not planning on filing for any FCC certifications. All these products have already passed respectively, and I am selling a kit. Like any other after-market item, the customer bares the burden of complying with any local laws/guidelines. I do plan on offering a simple perforated steel cover to act as a Faraday cage though.

4) Storage - Hard drives can be a weak link, correct again. I am recommending that the OS and all system data be stored on either a hardened Seagate automotive/military spec drive, or a small SSD. It is more practical for all involved to keep the system data and media on separate drives. This reduces the overall costs for the system, and also makes it easier to load media from your home PC and to share (legally) with others. A simple solution would be to use a 2.5" portable HD and connect via supplied USB connector in either glovebox or center armrest. Alternatively, an ipod can also be used in hard-disk mode as the media storage device.

Finally to address the hacking and viral threats, its a car computer. It wont have constant Internet connection or hold any viable personal information. If a user is concerned, they may install any protection software they would like.

I hope this answers your questions, but happy to clarify anything further if required.

To quickly answer other comments - I do not plan on offering any indash USB ports or optical drive. The aesthetic consequence is just too great. USB leads will be supplied for adding ports to the glovebox and center armrest. Hopefully that will provide quick-enough access for most.

However, Paul will be making custom inserts to go in the designated "catch-all" tray. It may be possible that a future modular insert for this location would include a USB port or ipod dock connector. If anyone can make something as ugly as a USB port in the dash attractive - its Paul.

DR

As long as Hans doesn't try to install Toyota FBW gas pedals it shouldn't be an issue.

Bill Ball

Right. I'm all for new technology. I was in the computer multimedia manufacturing sector for 8 years, half of that with MP3 devices. How much of the hardware/software do you plan to provide or at least specifically recommend so we don't have to do a lot of research and for what will we be responsible? Eh, we probably should leave a lot of these questions for later after you at least finish your design/prototyping.

SSD would seem essential. Waiting a minute and a half for Windows to boot and load the software so you can get HVAC doesn't sound like fun , but I suppsoe these must use hibernation/sleep or some quickboot system configuration. A fast SSD is great as a boot device - Win7 desktop in 10 seconds.

Tom928

Hans,

Sounds like you have done the due diligence.

On power, Minibox is worlable; however, my concern is the standard alternator is 90 amps. With car loads and a stereo installed, will you have the power to run the computer and not overwork the alternator?

On thermal, you are correct that the Atom based products do not need cooling, but that is in a ambient condition. My concern is, what happens when you turn on the heater or the temp behind the console exceeds 80 degrees?

I'm glad to hear you are providing the faraday cage, the AM radio guys will thank you

DR - The issue with Windoz is more personal. I dislike Weendoz - guess you can't tell huh!

Cheers,

jon928se

Why would power be an issue ? Hans stated his MB uses 25W - thats about 2 amps at 12V . I'm not sure what other power drains there would be. Display ? or is this included in the 25W.

For comparison my ASUS eepc with 10" screen has a power supply rated at 2.1A at 15 volts - so at 12v it would be say 2.5A This is broadly the equivalent of half of one headlight bulb. - inconsequential in the overall scheme of things.

DR

BUT, don't you want any fresh air?...or are you gonna run the AC all the time??

BTW, how do you drive without Windows.. snorkel?

You gotta have Windows!!

hans14914

Thanks Jon for helping me out. We are talking about super efficient computing here, not standard solutions. They not only consume little power, but actually run quite sprightly. Average boot time is around 30sec or so, but can be reduced shorter using suspend-to-ram (S3) modes.

I will supply a complete list of "recommend" and then "compatible" hardware and software. I am working with a carputer component provider to have ready-made hardware bundles for those who want the cookiecutter solution, just call or email and ask for the sharkputer package or whatever. I have a couple vendors I work with on stuff like this, and when the infrastructure is ready, the hardware list will be updated to reflect the current best options. As of now, this is the recomended board:

http://www.zotacusa.com/zotac-nm10-a...therboard.html

I will provide all the fasteners, brackets, cables.... etc necessary to get off the shelf hardware in your 928 - but if someone needs extra assistance, will build the complete system and pre-configure on request. That way you can control your own costs slightly and build it up as slowly or quickly as you want.

I have chosen manufacturing techniques that are flexible and scaleable, materials that are high quality without being exotic, and a good feature set that should please most but not all.

That said, this can be customized, so if you have a very special application in mind, we can adapt it to suit.

No_Substitute

I am very impressed!

Give that USB port a second thought. They're not that bad looking, and quite convenient. My home theater receiver has a rubber cap covering a few inputs when not in use.

S4ordie

Fantastic efforts on this by Hans and Paul. I've been able to sneak a peek at some of the early design stuff and it has been just great seeing it evolve. This system is going into the Turquoise Metallic project car.

Thanks Hans and Paul.

S4ordie

Something else worth noting is the space for the display and the carputer is significantly less than putting in a double DIN audio/visual system. No need to reposition the vacuum diaphram. Sweetness! I plan on incorporating a set of usb and iPod/Phone connectors that will be in the center armrest. That way they are hidden and available. Paul has already considered this and will incorporate into the design of my armrest console box.