View Poll Results: New 928 - Good or Bad Idea?
Yes, good idea and clearly link it to the 928.
172
86.00%
Yes, good idea, but don't link it to the 928.
10
5.00%
No, bad idea all around (please say why below).
18
9.00%
Voters: 200. You may not vote on this poll
Should Porsche come out with a "new" 928?
07-06-2011, 08:12 PM
#61
Instructor
Brad,
You can disagree all you want, but you are just picking a fight with Porsche not me. When the car was being made it was NOT the 928 that competed with a Vette in price, it was the 944 and 968 and they cost just slightly more than HALF what a 928 cost. SOOOO, if you follow the history of the 928 you KNOW Porsche would introduce it as a follow on and as the range topping model (other than special edition 911's) and that it would indeed cost $200k+ and the competition would be the 599 and Aventador, etc, NOT a Vette or a Nissan GTR!
If they priced it and made it perform like either the Vette (ZR1 in particular) and GTR and was priced to compete with them they would be hard pressed to sell another 911 and we have already been down that road and Porsche WILL NOT replace the 911... Therefore the car would HAVE to be more expensive (nearly 2X) and perform slightly better and on par with the Turbo.
You can disagree all you want, but you are just picking a fight with Porsche not me. When the car was being made it was NOT the 928 that competed with a Vette in price, it was the 944 and 968 and they cost just slightly more than HALF what a 928 cost. SOOOO, if you follow the history of the 928 you KNOW Porsche would introduce it as a follow on and as the range topping model (other than special edition 911's) and that it would indeed cost $200k+ and the competition would be the 599 and Aventador, etc, NOT a Vette or a Nissan GTR!
If they priced it and made it perform like either the Vette (ZR1 in particular) and GTR and was priced to compete with them they would be hard pressed to sell another 911 and we have already been down that road and Porsche WILL NOT replace the 911... Therefore the car would HAVE to be more expensive (nearly 2X) and perform slightly better and on par with the Turbo.
I have to admit I'm looking forward to seeing what they will do
07-06-2011, 08:36 PM
#62
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They could sell the 928 as the top model alongside the turbo-S 911 and sell for $160K & have tremendous performance, and have a car faster than the aston DBS, DB9 & as fast as the Ferrari 599GTB for a lot less money. They could even offer a lesser model with lower HP & sell it for $135K, nobody can tell me that porsche couldn't do it if they really wanted to, they priced themselves out of the market in 1995 when the car sold for $100K, that is like $250K in todays money, they don't have to follow that same road today, if they were satisfied with a lower per unit profit on each car but sell more of them even though its a smaller market. Personally I think Porsches lineup is pretty boring today styling wise, they need something new & different. I'm sure many here will disagree with that statement but thats how I see it.
07-06-2011, 08:54 PM
#63
Nordschleife Master
928man,
I like your thinking, but just look at the PanAm...if that car was $20k less (or maybe even $30k less) for each model can you IMAGINE how many they would sell??? As it stands they seem more than happy to sell the number they are currently moving!
I would love to see an "affordable" 928 follow on, but that just not seem to be how Porsche thinks! I totally agree they *COULD* do what you outline, but I doubt they will...
It's all speculation at this point anyway, but it does makes sense for them to add a front engine 2 door car to their line up. Shorten the PanAm platform and make it a pretty two door and drop the V6 model and sell them at $135k and $160k... I like it! Still couldn't afford one, but would be nice to see a "new" front engine 2 door V8 with a Porsche crest on it!
I like your thinking, but just look at the PanAm...if that car was $20k less (or maybe even $30k less) for each model can you IMAGINE how many they would sell??? As it stands they seem more than happy to sell the number they are currently moving!
I would love to see an "affordable" 928 follow on, but that just not seem to be how Porsche thinks! I totally agree they *COULD* do what you outline, but I doubt they will...
It's all speculation at this point anyway, but it does makes sense for them to add a front engine 2 door car to their line up. Shorten the PanAm platform and make it a pretty two door and drop the V6 model and sell them at $135k and $160k... I like it! Still couldn't afford one, but would be nice to see a "new" front engine 2 door V8 with a Porsche crest on it!
07-06-2011, 09:13 PM
#64
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Yes James I agree, they could do it but as you say they probably won't, styling wise I think the Panamera is ugly, I remember when Porsche introduced the 928 back in 1978, I thought the car looked like a modern spaceship, I was blown away, then about 15 yrs ago I saw one in Mark Martins auto museum in FL, that convinced me to get one. I guess Porsche is satisfied to sell what they have currently, but I would give anything to own a new design like the one pictured in AutoCar in this thread, of course, everyone has their own idea of what looks good! I can only afford Porsches after their 20yrs old anyway, so any new 928 would be out of my league unless I hit the lottery. But we can all dream I guess. Bill
07-06-2011, 09:30 PM
#65
Drifting
Brad,
You can disagree all you want, but you are just picking a fight with Porsche not me. When the car was being made it was NOT the 928 that competed with a Vette in price, it was the 944 and 968 and they cost just slightly more than HALF what a 928 cost. SOOOO, if you follow the history of the 928 you KNOW Porsche would introduce it as a follow on and as the range topping model (other than special edition 911's) and that it would indeed cost $200k+ and the competition would be the 599 and Aventador, etc, NOT a Vette or a Nissan GTR!
If they priced it and made it perform like either the Vette (ZR1 in particular) and GTR and was priced to compete with them they would be hard pressed to sell another 911 and we have already been down that road and Porsche WILL NOT replace the 911... Therefore the car would HAVE to be more expensive (nearly 2X) and perform slightly better and on par with the Turbo.
You can disagree all you want, but you are just picking a fight with Porsche not me. When the car was being made it was NOT the 928 that competed with a Vette in price, it was the 944 and 968 and they cost just slightly more than HALF what a 928 cost. SOOOO, if you follow the history of the 928 you KNOW Porsche would introduce it as a follow on and as the range topping model (other than special edition 911's) and that it would indeed cost $200k+ and the competition would be the 599 and Aventador, etc, NOT a Vette or a Nissan GTR!
If they priced it and made it perform like either the Vette (ZR1 in particular) and GTR and was priced to compete with them they would be hard pressed to sell another 911 and we have already been down that road and Porsche WILL NOT replace the 911... Therefore the car would HAVE to be more expensive (nearly 2X) and perform slightly better and on par with the Turbo.
I may be (more then likely) a bit out of touch with where all these cars compete at.
I used the vette as an example because everyone has seen them.
I understand that the 928, back in the day, was way more then the chevy in quality and cost. but that was then.
Today you mention the 599 and the Aventado. I dont know but I would not call either of them a touring car or a 2+2 or a all weather car. I dont know the specs on either of them so ILL ask, how do they compare to the ZR1 and what is the price difference or a callaway ZR1.
http://www.callawaycars.com/callaway...Components.htm
I understand totally about what you are saying that Porsche will not want to compete with its self, and I never thought of that in my first post.
So help me to understand the class where these cars sit on the track and then which is the best bang for the buck.
Personally the 599 and the Aventado I really doubt can compete with a vette in all weather conditions and then be comfortable enough to take your grandmother to church in.
I have never seen any of these other exotics, but from what I have heard they can not be used as a DD.
I am sure I will get roasted but lets compare apples with apples.
James, Thanks for the correction, you are always more then welcome to help me to understand as I am a new owner and have a long way to go.
Brad
07-06-2011, 10:01 PM
#66
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bravo.
The u.k model has nothing superficially in common with the 928-wrong.
It needs round or at least oblong headlights. That rear hatch window
and some resemblence to it's mass in the ***.
Porsche will ask a superhigh price for it and load it up with gizmos.
The u.k model has nothing superficially in common with the 928-wrong.
It needs round or at least oblong headlights. That rear hatch window
and some resemblence to it's mass in the ***.
Porsche will ask a superhigh price for it and load it up with gizmos.
07-07-2011, 01:31 AM
#67
Rennlist Member
James, not suprisingly, has hit the nail on the head here IMHO.
Any new 928 should not be a re-skinned 2-door Panamera. I'm okay with sharing parts, etc., but it would absolutely have to have an infusion of performance to take it to the top of the scale. It would neet to be able to eclipse the Turbo in top end performance, and even with the added weight should match its 0-60 acceleration. Here's a current comparison, not too far off with the Panamera Turbo S running gear, just needs a little more.
Here's the 2011 Turbo:
PERFORMANCE (C/D EST):
Zero to 60 mph: 2.9 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 10.9 sec
Top speed (drag limited): 195 mph
Here's the 2012 Panamera Turbo S:
PERFORMANCE (C/D EST):
Zero to 60 mph: 3.0 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 11.4 sec
Top speed (mfr’s claim): 190 mph
Except for the early Euro models, the 928 has always been an "all in" car, meaning no standard and "S" variant available simultaneously. I think the new 928 should be the same. No stripped down, detuned versions. It should only be available in its most powerful and most luxurious version.
The 928 was built for ownership by the elite well to do, that shouldn't change.
It was a flagship, and should be built with the same frame of mind. I don't think there is a market for a middle of the road GT car built by Porsche. The new 911's are basically filling that hole. Go limited production from the start, work the status angle, we all buy them 25 years from now.
Any new 928 should not be a re-skinned 2-door Panamera. I'm okay with sharing parts, etc., but it would absolutely have to have an infusion of performance to take it to the top of the scale. It would neet to be able to eclipse the Turbo in top end performance, and even with the added weight should match its 0-60 acceleration. Here's a current comparison, not too far off with the Panamera Turbo S running gear, just needs a little more.
Here's the 2011 Turbo:
PERFORMANCE (C/D EST):
Zero to 60 mph: 2.9 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 10.9 sec
Top speed (drag limited): 195 mph
Here's the 2012 Panamera Turbo S:
PERFORMANCE (C/D EST):
Zero to 60 mph: 3.0 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 11.4 sec
Top speed (mfr’s claim): 190 mph
Except for the early Euro models, the 928 has always been an "all in" car, meaning no standard and "S" variant available simultaneously. I think the new 928 should be the same. No stripped down, detuned versions. It should only be available in its most powerful and most luxurious version.
The 928 was built for ownership by the elite well to do, that shouldn't change.
It was a flagship, and should be built with the same frame of mind. I don't think there is a market for a middle of the road GT car built by Porsche. The new 911's are basically filling that hole. Go limited production from the start, work the status angle, we all buy them 25 years from now.
Brad,
Do you remember when 928's were NEW??? They were NOT affordable. Not by mere mortals like most of us anyway. They cost as much as a decent house! Any NEW 928 would need to make at least 600HP (so would probably need a 6.0L or more) and would likely cost in excess of $220k! Then 10 years after the first model year most of us here could *maybe* start to think about the day when we could afford our own "NEW" 928!
Do you remember when 928's were NEW??? They were NOT affordable. Not by mere mortals like most of us anyway. They cost as much as a decent house! Any NEW 928 would need to make at least 600HP (so would probably need a 6.0L or more) and would likely cost in excess of $220k! Then 10 years after the first model year most of us here could *maybe* start to think about the day when we could afford our own "NEW" 928!
07-07-2011, 08:44 AM
#69
Captain Obvious
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No my friend I am sorry if I came across rude.
I may be (more then likely) a bit out of touch with where all these cars compete at.
I used the vette as an example because everyone has seen them.
I understand that the 928, back in the day, was way more then the chevy in quality and cost. but that was then.
Today you mention the 599 and the Aventado. I dont know but I would not call either of them a touring car or a 2+2 or a all weather car. I dont know the specs on either of them so ILL ask, how do they compare to the ZR1 and what is the price difference or a callaway ZR1.
http://www.callawaycars.com/callaway...Components.htm
I understand totally about what you are saying that Porsche will not want to compete with its self, and I never thought of that in my first post.
So help me to understand the class where these cars sit on the track and then which is the best bang for the buck.
Personally the 599 and the Aventado I really doubt can compete with a vette in all weather conditions and then be comfortable enough to take your grandmother to church in.
I have never seen any of these other exotics, but from what I have heard they can not be used as a DD.
I am sure I will get roasted but lets compare apples with apples.
James, Thanks for the correction, you are always more then welcome to help me to understand as I am a new owner and have a long way to go.
Brad
I may be (more then likely) a bit out of touch with where all these cars compete at.
I used the vette as an example because everyone has seen them.
I understand that the 928, back in the day, was way more then the chevy in quality and cost. but that was then.
Today you mention the 599 and the Aventado. I dont know but I would not call either of them a touring car or a 2+2 or a all weather car. I dont know the specs on either of them so ILL ask, how do they compare to the ZR1 and what is the price difference or a callaway ZR1.
http://www.callawaycars.com/callaway...Components.htm
I understand totally about what you are saying that Porsche will not want to compete with its self, and I never thought of that in my first post.
So help me to understand the class where these cars sit on the track and then which is the best bang for the buck.
Personally the 599 and the Aventado I really doubt can compete with a vette in all weather conditions and then be comfortable enough to take your grandmother to church in.
I have never seen any of these other exotics, but from what I have heard they can not be used as a DD.
I am sure I will get roasted but lets compare apples with apples.
James, Thanks for the correction, you are always more then welcome to help me to understand as I am a new owner and have a long way to go.
Brad
07-07-2011, 09:28 AM
#70
The "new" 928 already has it's competitors. James has already pointed them out. The 599, AM DB9 and DBS are just about it. Possibly the Jag XK but that is below the AM cars so probably not.
The Corvette is not and will never be a "proper" 2+2 touring "GT" car. As much as I loved my old C5 and I really like the newer Z06 and ZR1, they are not cars that compete for those slots. Honestly, they barely win out against a 997 TT for all around performance. I can tell you which is more comfortable AND which one could be used as a "GT" car though. It's the one with two more seats...
The new 928 if it's made will more than likely be an amazing technological feat. What Porsche makes the Pano do is incredible. Shave a few pounds and add power and it's going to be at the top of the heap for sure.
The Corvette is not and will never be a "proper" 2+2 touring "GT" car. As much as I loved my old C5 and I really like the newer Z06 and ZR1, they are not cars that compete for those slots. Honestly, they barely win out against a 997 TT for all around performance. I can tell you which is more comfortable AND which one could be used as a "GT" car though. It's the one with two more seats...
The new 928 if it's made will more than likely be an amazing technological feat. What Porsche makes the Pano do is incredible. Shave a few pounds and add power and it's going to be at the top of the heap for sure.
07-07-2011, 09:41 AM
#71
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
There was a red GT at the local car this this past weekend. One of the most beautiful cars ever made, but I don't see any 928 lines on it. I will say the GT hips are reminiscent of the Cayman however.
07-07-2011, 12:18 PM
#72
Drifting
Sorry for getting off topic. I understand and agree with everyone’s points.
I just hope that they do not change the lines and distinguishing features of the car, if they make one.
I think it would be a shame if it was as expensive as a GT3R or more.
As far as high tech goes they have the 918 which IMHO is the best car on the planet but I may be biased
It is over $750,000 last I heard.
Porsche's electric flywheel accumulator in the 911 GT3 R Hybrid Version 2.0
is pure genius
http://www.gizmag.com/porsche-911-gt...sion-20/19038/
There is no doubt in my mine that what ever Porsche wants to do, they will do it well.
I just hope that they do not change the lines and distinguishing features of the car, if they make one.
I think it would be a shame if it was as expensive as a GT3R or more.
As far as high tech goes they have the 918 which IMHO is the best car on the planet but I may be biased
It is over $750,000 last I heard.
Porsche's electric flywheel accumulator in the 911 GT3 R Hybrid Version 2.0
is pure genius
http://www.gizmag.com/porsche-911-gt...sion-20/19038/
There is no doubt in my mine that what ever Porsche wants to do, they will do it well.
07-07-2011, 02:17 PM
#73
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Any new 928 must have a front engined V8, if not, its not a 928, they could use the Panamera platform, shorten it, style it nice & offer two versions, standard version with 500HP & S version with 650HP, that way the super elite aren't the only ones who could afford one(let the elite buy them too) It could be argued that anyone who could afford 150K could handle 180K too, but I think 150K is a boundary line for many. They could price them at $150K & $180K, even at these prices they would sell enough of them. Who you are marketing to is secondary to getting the sales out there, the latter is the bottom line for any company. You can't compare a car like this to a 911, it would be a completely different animal.
07-07-2011, 02:28 PM
#74
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As far as the corvettes are concerned they are ok but will never be a GT car & I find them very uncomfortable to ride in(lousy seats), yes they are fast but they are nothing more than souped up plastic bodies with drag race engines, they will never compare to the european cars, and I used to sell new corvettes, driven many of them, just my opinion, the quality just isn't there. If everybody thought the top corvettes were great there would be no market for Astons,Ferraris, and Porsches.
07-07-2011, 02:44 PM
#75
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More accurately they will do what ever VW management decides they can do based on how it might impact the other product lines.......and where VW sees the long term role of Porsche. While independent, Porsche was striving to broaden their market by selling "trucks" and four door sedans. Note the recent commercial about using your Porsche sportscar EVERYDAY ...in the snow, to haul stuff from the big box store, as a GT3 yellow school bus..