Kibort Official 928 Racer Rebuild project Thread
11-16-2009, 04:17 PM
#76
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Ok, this is what I found.
yes, both the pin 30s on the LH and EZK relays socket are live with 12v.
The ezk socket turns on pin 85 and 86 with 12v when the key is turned.
The LH only has pin 30 live with 12v regardless of key position.
fuel pump has pin 30 live with 12v regardless of key position
when the relays are installed, the x-ignition clicks at partial key turn and then the EzK clicks at full turn of the key.
Pin 87s are the primary of the relays. with the LH, it turns on injectors and the coil secondary shares power with the starter relay pin 30 and runs to pin 21 on the LH computer.
with the EZK,the 87 terminal goes to pin 35 on the LH computerand its secondary go to sinking the ignition coils and triggers. (i.e. EZK 30 hot, 85 on secondary goes to ground, 86 other side of coil secondary goes to coils and triggers, while 87 goes to or from the LH computer. that seems odd, but im sure im just getting it all confused
below is the pic of the wiring. red is pin 86 stuff, off the secondary, yellow is the pin 30always hot 12v, and green is the pin 87 switched stuff.
Yellow all ends up at the battery, no switching. what is the "15" bar where all the reds end up, is that a symbol for a switch, like the key?
yes, both the pin 30s on the LH and EZK relays socket are live with 12v.
The ezk socket turns on pin 85 and 86 with 12v when the key is turned.
The LH only has pin 30 live with 12v regardless of key position.
fuel pump has pin 30 live with 12v regardless of key position
when the relays are installed, the x-ignition clicks at partial key turn and then the EzK clicks at full turn of the key.
Pin 87s are the primary of the relays. with the LH, it turns on injectors and the coil secondary shares power with the starter relay pin 30 and runs to pin 21 on the LH computer.
with the EZK,the 87 terminal goes to pin 35 on the LH computerand its secondary go to sinking the ignition coils and triggers. (i.e. EZK 30 hot, 85 on secondary goes to ground, 86 other side of coil secondary goes to coils and triggers, while 87 goes to or from the LH computer. that seems odd, but im sure im just getting it all confused
below is the pic of the wiring. red is pin 86 stuff, off the secondary, yellow is the pin 30always hot 12v, and green is the pin 87 switched stuff.
Yellow all ends up at the battery, no switching. what is the "15" bar where all the reds end up, is that a symbol for a switch, like the key?
I explained above that the EZK relay in energised just with igntion switched 12v, nothing complicated or anything to do with the fuel pump relay, which is energised by the LH ECU once it receives rpm pulses on pin 1.
Also see above for how the LH relay should be energised. If your LH relay is not energised when ignition is switched on, then first check there is 12v on one of the contacts and also on one side of the coil of the LH relay.
If that's OK, then check when the EZK relay is energised that you get 12v at pin 35 of the LH ECU.
This 12v supply comes from the EZK relay and is the main 12v feed that activates the LH ECU
Also check pins 5,6,& 17 of the LH ECU have a good ground connection
Y
Let us know what you find.
Also see above for how the LH relay should be energised. If your LH relay is not energised when ignition is switched on, then first check there is 12v on one of the contacts and also on one side of the coil of the LH relay.
If that's OK, then check when the EZK relay is energised that you get 12v at pin 35 of the LH ECU.
This 12v supply comes from the EZK relay and is the main 12v feed that activates the LH ECU
Also check pins 5,6,& 17 of the LH ECU have a good ground connection
Y
Let us know what you find.
11-16-2009, 06:07 PM
#77
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I just noticed that it should be impossible for 12v to be seen at the EZK with the relay removed at pin 85, yet i measured 12v there with the ignition turned on. ground (circled in the diagram as "31" and it is connected to MP-V ground) is connected to there. short??
It looks like when the pin 35 from the ECU EZK box gets a voltage from the LH pin 30 on relay, which has a connect to the battery. When the LH relay pn 87 to 30 is closed current runs to the injectors, as pin 85 is connected to ground sunk at the pin 21 on the LH make that happen.
On the EZK relay, pin 86 goes to all the red lines on the drawing. ignition coils, trigger, and kickdown relay socket pin 15. so what in the heck can lite up pin 86 on that eZK relay, when it doesnt have any thing attached to it with power? (12v) is that entire circuit where all the red lines meet in the middle, have power? (the number 15 at a straight redline where everything seems to meet)
It looks like when the pin 35 from the ECU EZK box gets a voltage from the LH pin 30 on relay, which has a connect to the battery. When the LH relay pn 87 to 30 is closed current runs to the injectors, as pin 85 is connected to ground sunk at the pin 21 on the LH make that happen.
On the EZK relay, pin 86 goes to all the red lines on the drawing. ignition coils, trigger, and kickdown relay socket pin 15. so what in the heck can lite up pin 86 on that eZK relay, when it doesnt have any thing attached to it with power? (12v) is that entire circuit where all the red lines meet in the middle, have power? (the number 15 at a straight redline where everything seems to meet)
Ok, this is what I found.
yes, both the pin 30s on the LH and EZK relays socket are live with 12v.
The ezk socket turns on pin 85 and 86 with 12v when the key is turned.
The LH only has pin 30 live with 12v regardless of key position.
fuel pump has pin 30 live with 12v regardless of key position
when the relays are installed, the x-ignition clicks at partial key turn and then the EzK clicks at full turn of the key.
Pin 87s are the primary of the relays. with the LH, it turns on injectors and the coil secondary shares power with the starter relay pin 30 and runs to pin 21 on the LH computer.
with the EZK,the 87 terminal goes to pin 35 on the LH computerand its secondary go to sinking the ignition coils and triggers. (i.e. EZK 30 hot, 85 on secondary goes to ground, 86 other side of coil secondary goes to coils and triggers, while 87 goes to or from the LH computer. that seems odd, but im sure im just getting it all confused
below is the pic of the wiring. red is pin 86 stuff, off the secondary, yellow is the pin 30always hot 12v, and green is the pin 87 switched stuff.
Yellow all ends up at the battery, no switching. what is the "15" bar where all the reds end up, is that a symbol for a switch, like the key?
yes, both the pin 30s on the LH and EZK relays socket are live with 12v.
The ezk socket turns on pin 85 and 86 with 12v when the key is turned.
The LH only has pin 30 live with 12v regardless of key position.
fuel pump has pin 30 live with 12v regardless of key position
when the relays are installed, the x-ignition clicks at partial key turn and then the EzK clicks at full turn of the key.
Pin 87s are the primary of the relays. with the LH, it turns on injectors and the coil secondary shares power with the starter relay pin 30 and runs to pin 21 on the LH computer.
with the EZK,the 87 terminal goes to pin 35 on the LH computerand its secondary go to sinking the ignition coils and triggers. (i.e. EZK 30 hot, 85 on secondary goes to ground, 86 other side of coil secondary goes to coils and triggers, while 87 goes to or from the LH computer. that seems odd, but im sure im just getting it all confused
below is the pic of the wiring. red is pin 86 stuff, off the secondary, yellow is the pin 30always hot 12v, and green is the pin 87 switched stuff.
Yellow all ends up at the battery, no switching. what is the "15" bar where all the reds end up, is that a symbol for a switch, like the key?
Last edited by mark kibort; 11-16-2009 at 06:45 PM.
11-17-2009, 02:23 AM
#79
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
That red area is energized by the ignition. It also arms the fuel pump relay.
Now, the big question. why is my EZK pin 85, which is supposed to be ground as shown by the drawing above, show 12v when the ignition is turned on. It also shares 12 volt with the kickdown relay with the same pin position. both are supposted to be tied to the ground that meets at MP-V. can anyone shed some light on what I could be testing and seeing?
mk
Now, the big question. why is my EZK pin 85, which is supposed to be ground as shown by the drawing above, show 12v when the ignition is turned on. It also shares 12 volt with the kickdown relay with the same pin position. both are supposted to be tied to the ground that meets at MP-V. can anyone shed some light on what I could be testing and seeing?
mk
11-17-2009, 01:46 PM
#80
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
any help???
Hey, I did use that electrical diagram "book" by alan moore, that was on the web for 928s and confirmed that the "15" on the drawings is a ignition switched power and "31" is ground, but we knew that from the drawing.
so, I measured the switched voltage at the pin 85 on the ezk relay. somewhere, im getting voltage to the ground, but that sounds really strange considering, that ground position on the relay socket should be ground, not power. (all terminating to the back of the fuse panel , MP-V ground)
the "book" also confimed that the "R" wire bundle is not used, but what about the "L", as its missing from the fuse pannel.
Hey, I did use that electrical diagram "book" by alan moore, that was on the web for 928s and confirmed that the "15" on the drawings is a ignition switched power and "31" is ground, but we knew that from the drawing.
so, I measured the switched voltage at the pin 85 on the ezk relay. somewhere, im getting voltage to the ground, but that sounds really strange considering, that ground position on the relay socket should be ground, not power. (all terminating to the back of the fuse panel , MP-V ground)
the "book" also confimed that the "R" wire bundle is not used, but what about the "L", as its missing from the fuse pannel.
11-18-2009, 02:36 AM
#81
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
IT RUNS!!! funny how a hidden ground wire from the fuse panel can cause such a big problem. It was tucked way down low, out of sight behind the fuse panel. pin 85 to the wire showed 0 ohms, so that was it! hooked it up, no power to the pin 85 on the relay when the key turned. Then started it, and it just fired right up.
BUT, i forgot the radiator was still off the car, and the engine spewed 7 quarts of Amsoil oil, all over the garage floor. what a mess. fortunately, it only idled for a few seconds, so I would think that the bearings are ok. Now, on to getting this thing gutted after the radiator goes in.
No oil pressure, (no surprise with the oil cooler open) and no RPM shown on the gauge. I dont think the alternator has anything to do with RPM on the gauge, but maybe. I remember with the holbert car, it initially didnt have an RPM signal. CT automotive fixed it, but I dont know what they did or found wrong.
anyone think that the rod bearings could be damaged for my running without oil stunt?
anyone know where the best place to start to look for the rpm gauge signal?
Thanks!
mk
BUT, i forgot the radiator was still off the car, and the engine spewed 7 quarts of Amsoil oil, all over the garage floor. what a mess. fortunately, it only idled for a few seconds, so I would think that the bearings are ok. Now, on to getting this thing gutted after the radiator goes in.
No oil pressure, (no surprise with the oil cooler open) and no RPM shown on the gauge. I dont think the alternator has anything to do with RPM on the gauge, but maybe. I remember with the holbert car, it initially didnt have an RPM signal. CT automotive fixed it, but I dont know what they did or found wrong.
anyone think that the rod bearings could be damaged for my running without oil stunt?
anyone know where the best place to start to look for the rpm gauge signal?
Thanks!
mk
Last edited by mark kibort; 11-18-2009 at 11:41 AM.
11-18-2009, 01:50 PM
#84
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
could have done without the oil slick though! 
thanks,
Now, on to the rpm gauge and hooking up the radiator. after that, only a few 1000 more things to do, like you say.
mk
thanks,
Now, on to the rpm gauge and hooking up the radiator. after that, only a few 1000 more things to do, like you say.
mk
11-18-2009, 04:49 PM
#85
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
update: it runs with radiator, oil pressure good, no leaks, but my clutch line exploded (the soft line between slave and master.)when I pushed it in to put it in gear. probably not a good idea anyway, without any brakes. Ill have to connect those, the e-brake or just jack up the back next time.
no rpm signal, and every warning light imaginable. all of them. except temp and oil pressure.
(ie abs, pads, oil level, brake fluid, timing belt,washer fluid, coolant, etc etc)
anyone know where to start with the rpm sensor to get the gauge working?
thanks
mk
no rpm signal, and every warning light imaginable. all of them. except temp and oil pressure.
(ie abs, pads, oil level, brake fluid, timing belt,washer fluid, coolant, etc etc)
anyone know where to start with the rpm sensor to get the gauge working?
thanks
mk
11-18-2009, 05:32 PM
#86
Archive Gatekeeper
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Mark-
I've got a spare used clutch line that's yours for the shipping if you want to tempt fate with a 16 year old clutch hose. Give a shout.
With all the brake bleeding and tire changing you must do, you don't have liftbars? Put a big PorKen decal on your hood and get a discount set from him pronto!
I've got a spare used clutch line that's yours for the shipping if you want to tempt fate with a 16 year old clutch hose. Give a shout.
With all the brake bleeding and tire changing you must do, you don't have liftbars? Put a big PorKen decal on your hood and get a discount set from him pronto!
11-29-2009, 12:22 PM
#88
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
clutch line is in, bled. still doesnt go into gear, but could be from the intermediate plate shift after its last race.
Brake lines are in, system has been attempted to be bled, but I have been unsucessful. I have minimal brakes, and only if I pump them a couple of times. Im just rolling down the street, not really driving.
Ive bled them several times, but it doesnt seem to work.
however, I finally got all the ABS sensors wired on each wheel by using spare sensors, and creative soldered connections. I could test it by flooring the car in gear and pumping the brakes and pressing them hard I could get the familar ABS growl.
Now, I have to find out what is causing the loud clicking sound coming from the flyweel and belhousing. it doesnt do it cold, but as it warms, it gets louder and louder. you can feel it right at the lower bellhousing. the cover will have to come off . I wonder if the flyweel or crank could have got bent?
Then, all the electrical is a mess. No rpm signal, and all the tail lights dont work. I hve hazards, and one backup light, but the rest dont work at all, and fuses are all good. yet another wild goose chase.
once the car run without noises, brakes work, it will be time to gut and put the cage in.
Brake lines are in, system has been attempted to be bled, but I have been unsucessful. I have minimal brakes, and only if I pump them a couple of times. Im just rolling down the street, not really driving.
Ive bled them several times, but it doesnt seem to work.
however, I finally got all the ABS sensors wired on each wheel by using spare sensors, and creative soldered connections. I could test it by flooring the car in gear and pumping the brakes and pressing them hard I could get the familar ABS growl.
Now, I have to find out what is causing the loud clicking sound coming from the flyweel and belhousing. it doesnt do it cold, but as it warms, it gets louder and louder. you can feel it right at the lower bellhousing. the cover will have to come off . I wonder if the flyweel or crank could have got bent?
Then, all the electrical is a mess. No rpm signal, and all the tail lights dont work. I hve hazards, and one backup light, but the rest dont work at all, and fuses are all good. yet another wild goose chase.
once the car run without noises, brakes work, it will be time to gut and put the cage in.
11-29-2009, 03:05 PM
#90
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I wonder why all the lights dont light up, yet there are no warning lights on the dash? If a bulb is out or missing, usually you will get the light warnings. I have no warnings, except pad wear, which is expected as all of them have been removed. (even when i switch on the lights , both parking and main at the dash switch)
mk
mk