Sears Point -Infinion Raceway 9-09 UPDATE/RESULTs HOLBERT CAR DESTROYED BY CIVIC.
09-08-2009, 01:16 PM
#121
Rennlist Member
Even if the Holbert tub could be straightend could it be trusted? Probably never for racing and for the street............questionable.
Mark Anderson and Dave Roberts have offered straight chassis..............thats where i'd start and transfer all the useable parts from one to the other. If the engine is damaged what can be salvaged and then taken off of the original engine.
This is long after your health is considerd first and foremost.
Mark Anderson and Dave Roberts have offered straight chassis..............thats where i'd start and transfer all the useable parts from one to the other. If the engine is damaged what can be salvaged and then taken off of the original engine.
This is long after your health is considerd first and foremost.
09-08-2009, 01:45 PM
#122
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Sound advice there, and we are going with the chassis swap!
However, if I had unlimited funds, I might be inclined to straigten it best I could. Cut out a bunch of steel and replace with a bunch of structural tubings. (not tube frame, but close). But, that would be hundreds of hours in itself by someone with the equip and ability that I certainly dont have.
Thanks,
Mark
However, if I had unlimited funds, I might be inclined to straigten it best I could. Cut out a bunch of steel and replace with a bunch of structural tubings. (not tube frame, but close). But, that would be hundreds of hours in itself by someone with the equip and ability that I certainly dont have.
Thanks,
Mark
Even if the Holbert tub could be straightend could it be trusted? Probably never for racing and for the street............questionable.
Mark Anderson and Dave Roberts have offered straight chassis..............thats where i'd start and transfer all the useable parts from one to the other. If the engine is damaged what can be salvaged and then taken off of the original engine.
This is long after your health is considerd first and foremost.
Mark Anderson and Dave Roberts have offered straight chassis..............thats where i'd start and transfer all the useable parts from one to the other. If the engine is damaged what can be salvaged and then taken off of the original engine.
This is long after your health is considerd first and foremost.
09-08-2009, 02:10 PM
#123
Burning Brakes
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Man, Mark... so sorry to hear about this, but if it's gonna get bent, may as well be at a race track. I'd say the chassis is toast, it'll never be right again no matter how much straightening you get done. Salvage the drive train and go-fast bits, bolt 'em to a new chassis... and let's go racing! As for any grief over crunching an historic example... I've been calling it the Kibort car for years. Build yourself another one and get back out there spanking 911's.
09-08-2009, 02:32 PM
#124
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``````The damage is very strange. the center tunnel is very distorted, but the cage has seemed to not have moved. All of the damage seems to be on the front clip. maybe this is all that it would need.````````
Mark sorry about your car........when I crashed mine in the kink at RA the whole center tunnel was bend from front to rear, but when I removed the cage and installed it in the other car found out that it did not move at all.........
Mark sorry about your car........when I crashed mine in the kink at RA the whole center tunnel was bend from front to rear, but when I removed the cage and installed it in the other car found out that it did not move at all.........
09-08-2009, 02:49 PM
#125
Nordschleife Master
The damage to the bellhousing does not right off the engine at all. It is mearly the bellhousing that is broken. Until the engine comes out and is inspected I would not start it up again or do anything else to it.
Good luck and I hope you get back onto the track soon.
Now I am considering adding a bar into my roll cage that runs inside that lower/outter chassis rail. It might just hold the floor from being crushed in.
Malcolm, I agree with you, but if the bad parts are cut out and new parts welded in I think that it would be fine. Straightening those parts would put too much fatigue into the metal. And with the front end. Consider tube framing it instead of stock rails if you repair it.
Good luck and I hope you get back onto the track soon.
Now I am considering adding a bar into my roll cage that runs inside that lower/outter chassis rail. It might just hold the floor from being crushed in.
Malcolm, I agree with you, but if the bad parts are cut out and new parts welded in I think that it would be fine. Straightening those parts would put too much fatigue into the metal. And with the front end. Consider tube framing it instead of stock rails if you repair it.
09-08-2009, 02:56 PM
#126
Owns the Streets
Needs Camber
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Needs Camber
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Wasn't all the hoopla about HANS systems stemmed from the nasty front offset crash of #3 in Nascar. That and possible loose safety belts created the shear forces that can kill.
Safety first.
Winning second.
09-08-2009, 03:16 PM
#127
Nordschleife Master
I dont know enough about the frame technology, but im sure it could be pulled straight again with a lot of work. I also have the matching original block in a plastic bag in my garage as well, so that the old engine and chassis could be reunited, but thats looking at a lot of work, for sure. The damage is very strange. the center tunnel is very distorted, but the cage has seemed to not have moved. All of the damage seems to be on the front clip. maybe this is all that it would need.
09-08-2009, 04:04 PM
#128
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Mark, best wishes on getting back to 100%.
As for the car... the body may never race again, but whatever you do don't scrap it! It’s too important! Strip it bare to recoup as much as possible for the replacement track car and keep it together with the original block. Modern frame straightening is a thing of beauty. No point in building a replacement track car with that body when empty 928 shells are straight, true and cost pennies, but it’s certainly historically significant enough to warrant an attempt to pull it somewhat back to spec for preservation purposes. If I lived closer to you I’d pay you top dollar for the twisted body and original block just to preserve them.
As for the car... the body may never race again, but whatever you do don't scrap it! It’s too important! Strip it bare to recoup as much as possible for the replacement track car and keep it together with the original block. Modern frame straightening is a thing of beauty. No point in building a replacement track car with that body when empty 928 shells are straight, true and cost pennies, but it’s certainly historically significant enough to warrant an attempt to pull it somewhat back to spec for preservation purposes. If I lived closer to you I’d pay you top dollar for the twisted body and original block just to preserve them.
09-08-2009, 05:06 PM
#129
Rennlist Member
I don't even know if Mark A would be interested, but maybe a swap for the chassis. That way someone who wants a shot at rehabing the Holbert car can purchase it from Mark A. Seems fair, just don't know if it is worth it.
09-08-2009, 05:09 PM
#130
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Maybe i should auction off the body and original block as a package, because I certainly will not have any room to store it.
the logistics of the transfer of parts, is what has me the most worried.
Mk
the logistics of the transfer of parts, is what has me the most worried.
Mk
Mark, best wishes on getting back to 100%.
As for the car... the body may never race again, but whatever you do don't scrap it! It’s too important! Strip it bare to recoup as much as possible for the replacement track car and keep it together with the original block. Modern frame straightening is a thing of beauty. No point in building a replacement track car with that body when empty 928 shells are straight, true and cost pennies, but it’s certainly historically significant enough to warrant an attempt to pull it somewhat back to spec for preservation purposes. If I lived closer to you I’d pay you top dollar for the twisted body and original block just to preserve them.
As for the car... the body may never race again, but whatever you do don't scrap it! It’s too important! Strip it bare to recoup as much as possible for the replacement track car and keep it together with the original block. Modern frame straightening is a thing of beauty. No point in building a replacement track car with that body when empty 928 shells are straight, true and cost pennies, but it’s certainly historically significant enough to warrant an attempt to pull it somewhat back to spec for preservation purposes. If I lived closer to you I’d pay you top dollar for the twisted body and original block just to preserve them.
09-08-2009, 05:24 PM
#131
By Mark Kibort
I think that is a great idea and what should be done, it is a piece of history and it certainly can be fixed by the right person, not going to be easy though. I should add I think the car should be sold as a whole minus the stroker engine, that way after the efforts it is all the Holbert Car. Well as much as it can be.
I very sorry this happened to you Mark. I don't know who commented but it is very true you need to if you have any neck pain to get assessed. MRI's here only cost $400 and you need to treat your neck with respect. My wife and I were rear ended and while she said at the time she would get better she never did and know has daily headaches etc and she was only 28 at the time of the accident.
Things to look for are altered sensation in your fingers, the most common disc to damage is C5/6 and this is your index and middle finger in the vast majority of people, I also now get some Reynaud's or white fingers in winter which takes away any sensation and the blood flow. The insurance didn't allow for enough treatment or any rest. Your best outcome if you are injured is not to ignore it but get treatment and actively work on it, the car can wait. Look after yourself first.
All the best
Greg
Maybe i should auction off the body and original block as a package, because I certainly will not have any room to store it.
the logistics of the transfer of parts, is what has me the most worried.
Mk
the logistics of the transfer of parts, is what has me the most worried.
Mk
I very sorry this happened to you Mark. I don't know who commented but it is very true you need to if you have any neck pain to get assessed. MRI's here only cost $400 and you need to treat your neck with respect. My wife and I were rear ended and while she said at the time she would get better she never did and know has daily headaches etc and she was only 28 at the time of the accident.
Things to look for are altered sensation in your fingers, the most common disc to damage is C5/6 and this is your index and middle finger in the vast majority of people, I also now get some Reynaud's or white fingers in winter which takes away any sensation and the blood flow. The insurance didn't allow for enough treatment or any rest. Your best outcome if you are injured is not to ignore it but get treatment and actively work on it, the car can wait. Look after yourself first.
All the best
Greg
Last edited by slate blue; 09-08-2009 at 05:41 PM.
09-08-2009, 05:27 PM
#132
Race Director
The damage to the bellhousing does not right off the engine at all. It is mearly the bellhousing that is broken. Until the engine comes out and is inspected I would not start it up again or do anything else to it.
Good luck and I hope you get back onto the track soon.
Now I am considering adding a bar into my roll cage that runs inside that lower/outter chassis rail. It might just hold the floor from being crushed in.
Malcolm, I agree with you, but if the bad parts are cut out and new parts welded in I think that it would be fine. Straightening those parts would put too much fatigue into the metal. And with the front end. Consider tube framing it instead of stock rails if you repair it.
Good luck and I hope you get back onto the track soon.
Now I am considering adding a bar into my roll cage that runs inside that lower/outter chassis rail. It might just hold the floor from being crushed in.
Malcolm, I agree with you, but if the bad parts are cut out and new parts welded in I think that it would be fine. Straightening those parts would put too much fatigue into the metal. And with the front end. Consider tube framing it instead of stock rails if you repair it.
09-08-2009, 06:35 PM
#133
Drifting
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Sorry to hear about that...
But at least the car had an amazing life.
In some ways, your own racing history with the car is almost
as cool as the original speed record...
It went from being the fastest street car of it's time,
to being a very fast street car on a racetrack, even in modern days...
Still street-legal and street driven.
So that's a very impressive status, and gives that car even more "cool factor".
So yeah, my suggestion is to start with a new frame, new chassis,
and salvage what you can, but put the old car on display at 928 International
or something, maybe with a little plaque or story about the car's history...
And hey, this is the first time that car's been on a trailer! Haha!
But at least the car had an amazing life.
In some ways, your own racing history with the car is almost
as cool as the original speed record...
It went from being the fastest street car of it's time,
to being a very fast street car on a racetrack, even in modern days...
Still street-legal and street driven.
So that's a very impressive status, and gives that car even more "cool factor".
So yeah, my suggestion is to start with a new frame, new chassis,
and salvage what you can, but put the old car on display at 928 International
or something, maybe with a little plaque or story about the car's history...
And hey, this is the first time that car's been on a trailer! Haha!
09-08-2009, 07:01 PM
#134
Nordschleife Master
Brian,
in your last picture there, that is how I will be building my door bars too. But mine will be almost touching the door skin as I have gone way more into gutting the door. However what I am proposing is to cut the chassis to allow a bar to be added which protrudes into the lower chassis bar.
Or to add a bar which runs on the inside of this bar to reinforce the area and preventing it from being able to buckle in and force the drivers seat towards the roof (possible neck injury from compression).
Does this make sence to you?
in your last picture there, that is how I will be building my door bars too. But mine will be almost touching the door skin as I have gone way more into gutting the door. However what I am proposing is to cut the chassis to allow a bar to be added which protrudes into the lower chassis bar.
Or to add a bar which runs on the inside of this bar to reinforce the area and preventing it from being able to buckle in and force the drivers seat towards the roof (possible neck injury from compression).
Does this make sence to you?
