86'928S MeteorGrey

Drove the car home on Saturday. It was about a 2 hour drive. Under the hood, there are some fixes comming. Center TB cover missing. Oil pump sprocket and cam sprockets hammered. Possibly crank sprocket too. Oil pressure sits at about 1 bar at idle. Runs about 4 bar at cruise. Anti lock light on. Power steering non op. Probably needs rack and pump rebuild and fresh lines. After about 30 minutes of driving, got some noise comming from the TT...TT bearings are shot. Driver seat bottom cushion is worn and you sink too deep into the seat making it a little uncomfortable. Some very minor damage at passenger side right where nose meets fender. Air box missing a few straps. Small canister at center top of radiator missing lid and contents? What is that thing? Fuel lines in bad shape. I probably should have trailered it home, but it did just fine.

On a good note, the engine had plenty of power. The transmission shifts smoothly. Except for the dash/pod cracks and a few seat tears, the interior looks pretty decent. All the seat controlls work well. Cruise control works well. We stayed in San Diego for the day and I got lots of compliments on the car.

I know... I know... PHOTOS. I had to entertain the wife on Sunday after the purchase and trek. I will post plenty this week. Maybe not the best deal EVER on a 928S4, but plenty good of a deal for me.

steveoen

is the car still for sale or has someone picked it up already?

Lizard928

Steveoen, read post above yours.

Mike,
the cap missing just behind the center of the rad is the air pump filter.

Sounds like a par for the course car.

docmirror

Suh-weet! Good save, sounds like another project brought back to life. Keep up the marque.

Hilton

Sounds like a normal minimum-maintenanced S4. If the interior and paint are in decent shape, you scored a good 'un, given you do your own mechanicals.

Assuming you checked TBF status with your previous experience?

Replace oil with cheap 20W50 and see what oil pressure does - sounds like a 5W40 is in it. Then compression test to make sure head gasket is decent, and plug in a diagnostic tool to check actuators and ecu codes. Then its shopping list time

From the stuff you list, it'll be faster and waaay easier to just pull the engine and reseal on a stand and replace TT bearings - my next save will be engine out (my '87 was already saved by a previous enthusiast.. so no engine pull).

My finger-in-the-air says it sounds like about $2.5k in parts to me if you do your own work and just want to end up with a stock-running DD 928.

86'928S MeteorGrey

Great advice. What I'm shooting for is a decent looking DD that won't catch fire... I'm probably going to re-do the front end of the engine in car, replace fuel lines, refresh intake (quicky), drop the tranny and R&R the TT and cooler lines. Once the 86.5 is alive again, I'll start on a real engine rebuild on this 89. Makes my palms sweaty thinking about the parts list...

pcar928fan

Man, that is a heck of a project, but you sure could end up with a decent '89 DD for $6k plus your elbow grease (at a value of FREE!)

That interior sounds "like new" to me... So glad I didn't recommend this car to my buddy looking for an S4... SO GLAD!

chaadster

I don't know what kind of advice this is, but 5W40 is a Porsche approved, factory fill weight oil, and so does not have any trouble maintaining correct pressure in a properly functioning engine. There has never been a 20W50 that was Porsche approved for the 928.

In particular, we're talking 5bar at 4-5000rpm, hot idle is usually 1.5 to 2.5bar, and 4+bar around 2200rpm.

A 20W oil will not circulate as quickly when cold, and doesn't provide the lubrication needed for the engine in street conditions.

He could run a 15W being in warm So.Cal if need be, but a 20W is a very poor choice.

Anyway, search for posts by Doug Hillary. His oil analyses and cogent discussions on oil performance are the best you'll find in particular to the 928.

Cosmo Kramer

See attached page 24 volume 1 of the WSM, states 20W 50 as an approved oil.

BBX

Now that you have your list of repairs, when will you have your "party"? I will be more than willing to come up and help with the tt bearing replacement, are you going to gather all the parts and do it all at once?


-James, was that comment really necessary? Are you really trying to make Mike feel bad about his new car? If this is not the car your friend is looking for, keep it to yourself. We all knew what you meant by that, don't go and try to act stupid.

pcar928fan

Mike is happy he got a good deal...he was looking for cheap and he found it... He will make it a great car and it will be another wonderful 928 SAVE! We ALL love to see that! I have saved a few over the years myself. Not what my friend was looking for...but from the first comments and pics you posted it looked promising.

Now in the future you might want to rethink how you represent a car in the beginning instead of having to back track on your initial comments. Lets just say you have had an interesting start to your RL participation.

Oh, the comment was not necessary but it is so fun tweaking you that I couldn't resist!

Hilton

Thanks for your concern Chaad, however the owners manuals for both my '87 and '89 (pages 64 and 65 respectively) both clearly show a SAE 20W50 as being suitable, for temperatures above -10 degrees Celcius (14 degrees F).

I'm familiar with both Porsche's and Doug Hillary's recommendations - Doug has over the years contributed a lot of information both here and on our local Landshark Australian 928 owners list. Personally I don't agree with Doug's position on oil grades - especially on the validity of anti-wear and detergent additives in more recent oil packaging forumlated to meet API SM requirements.

Suffice to say that I only consider use of oils with both sufficient levels (better than 1100ppm) of ZDDP, and a grade deemed suitable by Porsche when they were actively producing and testing 928 engines.

This means I don't consider modern API SM compliant 5W40's to be suitable - they contain dramatically lower ZDDP levels than the API SF certified oils of the 928's production years. Under API SM however, for 50 weight and higher oils, levels of ZDDP above 1000 ppm are permissible - so its only the lighter weight modern oils you need to be wary of, such as 5W40.

As to factory recommendations - go read up on M96 engine issues

Anyway.. enough digression. Back to regular programming and Mike's saving of this shark

chaadster

The page you cited does not state a 20W 50 as an approved oil, and in fact, states "when approved," clearly indicating some other source to be referenced for Porsche approval.

That other source would be something like this: http://www.landsharkoz.com/tt/tt_pao.htm

I don't know if there is a more current approved oils list, but it seems hard to believe that they'd spec an oil with less cold flow for an engine like ours.

Finally, I'll just restate that I think Doug Hillary's posts here should be sought and read by anyone with an opinion on which oil to use in the 928.

Hilton

Just to clarify, I'm not saying 5W40 is a wrong choice - just that in my opinion, an SM-rated 5W40 is a wrong choice. For a warm climate, and a high-mileage 928, I would say that a 5W40 is too light.

For lower weights, SM is inline with the GF-4 standard for fuel efficient oils, and limits the phosphorous content to between 600 and 800ppm. This is a level which is too low for our engines. API themselves recommend that for engines older than 2001, SJ rated oil is used.

http://www.apicj-4.org/EngineOilGuide2006.pdf

Unfortunately, manufacturing efficiencies mean that many higher weight oils are subjected to this same formulation resulting in deficient levels of ZDDP for engine protection.

For a cold climate such as Michigan, I'd bother to hunt down an API SJ 5W40 oil. For warmer climates, there is more choice as the SM standard permits higher levels of phosphorous, however its still worth researching the oils and making sure the one chosen has sufficient levels to limit wear, as many of them just end up with the same additive package as the lighter weights, and are no more suitable.

Anyway, enough of the Great Oil Debate (as its not-so-affectionately known on the Landshark list). Only time and more empirical data will answer the question. In the mean time, I encourage you to go read as many good sources as possible and weigh up the merits of each to come to your own conclusion.

Hilton.

chaadster

Hilton,

I am familiar with the chart in the owners' manual showing the temp range, and you are referencing it incorrectly. Directly below the diagram it says, "Use only engine oils which meet the specifications designated by PORSCHE. Your Porsche dealer will be glad to advise you on the the correct type of oil for your engine." The chart you cite has no specifications designated by PORSCHE, and is used for illustrative purposes pursuant the general oil discussion on that page.

Furthmore, the final section of that page contains, "PORSCHE approves only fuel-efficient-oils which are structurally so stable that they can be used in PORSCHE engines both as summer and winter oils (see chart of areas of application for oils of different viscosity)."

Please notice the chart has a separate category for "Fuel-efficient oils" and lists only SAE 10W 30 and SAE 10W 40. 20W 50 is clearly excluded from the category of approved oils, i.e. fuel efficient oils.

It's true that 5W 40 is not indicated on the chart at all, but again, is on the Approved Oils bulletin I linked to above, which supersedes all 928 owners' manuals by date.

With regards to ZDDP levels, I don't know what that means to oil performance, so I'll presume you know what what you're talking about there, although I admit, the way you slam 5w40 oils without specifying a brand suggests that you are speaking in gross generalities. The 5W40 I use, for example, meets the latest API CI-4 Plus, SL/CF and ACEA E5/E4/E3, and is Porsche Approved. Not all 5W40 weight oils are approved by Porsche, which is why they have the Approved Oils list, which lists oils by brand and model.

I'm also confused by your dismissal of the significance of Porsche approval. Whereas Hillary has presented the oil analyses from his methodical oil performance assessments (which, by the way, concur with Porsche's recommendations), I'm unfamiliar with what evidence there is (other than Kibort's anecdotes!) to suggest 20W50 (generally) is superior. Do tell.

I realize that by and large, the oil issue is probably not that big a deal, although I don't know why someone would want to put a heavier oil, which circulates more slowly on startup, in our engines. We have large sumps and the oil takes a long time to heat up, and get flowing.

I know some have gone with the heavier oil to quiet noisy engines, but at what cost to engine longevity? Again, I accept the difference may be negligible, but given that we don't know, I err on the side of science, on Porsche's reputation for building the most reliable supercars on the planet, and Doug Hillary's examinations!

Finally--and I'm sorry to prattle on-- the M96 Boxster engine reference I don't get. Those noted failures didn't result from inadequate oil composition as I understand, but rather crankshaft seal failure stemming from poor engine architecture and/or incorrect part specs. It is not evidence of chronic Porsche factory oil spec failure, unless I missed something.