mark kibort

As with my exchanges with Greg Brown on the subject and seeing the lack of luck that guys like JV had with that technique, I went out and really researched how this darn thing works. if you put the H's all the way back, there is a MORE than good chance that the pressue plate will drag, and why wouldnt it? you are allowing the INT plate to move rearward to the distance of the "gap". its not needed and gives no advnatage to do so. the little 1mm gap, that can be seen closingwhen the pedal is depressed if you have a little cut out window as Scot and I do, you can see the plate move rearward via the flat springs and to the limit of the "H"'s . the pressure plate behind it, moves away and it can be REALLY far away, but it doesnt matter. all we care about is that it moves away from the intermediate plate. Now, if you have the Hs moved back and it works, then you are lucky because the movement of the pressure plate is , for some reason, greater than what Ive seen. thats ok too. Because this situation is showing itself as a problem, I am advising something I know will work, based on the experiementation and understanding of the mechanism. a 1mm gap will do the trick. see my pictures of what doesnt work and what does work as far as what the 1mm gap looks like and the gap that doesnt. I bet dollars to donuts that when he pulls the cover,there will be a 1.5mm gap. (too much)

again, the devek method of "all the way back" makes no sense and if works, you are lucky, as it shouldnt in most cases. *(because you are alowing the INT plate to move rearward that distance. greater than 1mm runs the risk of not clearing the movement of the pressure plate rearward.) This doesnt work on mine, or scots and JV seemed to have the same issues. For some reason, against all that were responding, ive been able to race 12 race days so far, and have no clutch issues, even with the 400ftlbs of torque my motor makes.

mk

mark kibort

Here is the link

https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...lateers-2.html

Here is what your H tab will look like when its forcing the INT plate to drag on the pressure plate , and here is what it needs to look like before assembly.

GlenL

Beautiful. 189 posts of you arguing this with everyone. I didn't read them all but if Colin agrees with me, then I'm happy.

Did you ever think that each clutch may be a bit different? The hydraulics may be different? The pedals are adjusted differently?

BTW - The DEVEK method was a variation on the FWSM "look for gaps" approach. Likely worked for them on their car. Neither worked for me.

Assuming what works for you on this will work for others is a huge mistake. The factory ditched the design because it couldn't be serviced. There's a hint that it takes something more than any one written procedure to adjust the intermediat plate successfully.

Crank 'em back, dudes. So much easier than farting around. If it does drag, nudge 'em back a bit. Repeat as necessary.

Flybry07

My thread is starting to take the same form as Marks last one on this topic!! All the way back.... NO 1mm ahhhhhh!!

I guess the question is how many times has the 1 mm gap technique not worked???

Before I lay on the garage floor and start the swearing I'm going to bleed the clutch master today.

Does the worn clutch arm ball cup have any factor in this dragging issue?????

mark kibort

Yes, and thats the point. If you get lucky, the "all the way back " technique will work. all you need is to have an arm , hydralic system that moves , pulls everything back 1mm farther. thats why it worked for who ever said that is the way. However, 1mm setting on the H's will work for everyone, BECAUSE it allows the intermediate plate to move back exactly that same amount. as long as you dont have shreaded material in the forward clutch disc, OR the disc is not frozen to the shaft and not moving back, you will be fine. its not my car, its scots car too and several others Ive worked on or advised this technique. Understanding how it works is the key here.

Here are the pics. too large a gap and just right. all the way back will risk the contact with the pressure plate, and a little gap will provide perfect release from the flywheel. You can take that to the bank.

mk

Flybry07

Well I bled the master 3 times using the piston removal method and no difference! I dident make too much of a mess either!

I also dug out the old master out of the trash and found that it compresses 5mm more than the new one!!

Why on earth would they change that?

Should I simply grind off 5mm and slot the end of the piston as mrmerlin suggested?

OR is that simply masking another problem?

mark kibort

You are chasing your tail on this one. just remove those 8 or so bolts on the lower bell housing and make those H's look like mine. (about 1mm gap)
You willl be glad you did. not too many folks have see how they actually work. Hacker ,I think, had the temp cover and I have (and so does scot) have the peak-a-boo window with cover. All the gap does is allow the INT plate to move backward forced ONLY by the spring pressure of the spring tabs on the intermediate plate itself. If it moves AT all, it releases from the flywheel. in the rear where all the action is, as the clutch mechanism is pulled on by the lever arm, it pulls its surface from the pressure plates. If it doesnt move very much, then it never releases, because remember, the INT Plate is chasing it via its sprigns. get a big pull, or maybe a master cylinder that gets more movement, then the pressure plate moves further rear ward and it might not matter what the gap is rearward. this might be the difference that Glen is talking about. BUT, the small gap technique WILL work for all dual disc clutches.

try it, you will like it!!

mk

Flybry07

Chasing my tail is an understatement!! I'm sick of dealing with this clutch!!

Lizard928

Remove the 5mm off the end of the shaft. Or just pull seal which is bad off the new guts and put it on the old guts. But be careful not to damage the seal. As well CUT the end dont grind it down. This will cause it to get very very hot and thus will melt the seal.

(sorry I missed coming back to this thread).

Flybry07

I guess I'll just go for it and adjust the plate next week and replace the ball cup at the same time.

I bet modding the master would work also but I find it hard to believe that the new master cylinders have reduced travel just to make a headache!

Is there anything I should lube while I'm in there? The clutch pedal feels a little gritty when depressing it but only while the engine is running and there is no bad bearing noise or anything.

Fabio421

I found this out awhile ago and posted the fix. 5mm doesn't sound like what we saw with ours though. Here's the thread.

Flybry07

Thanks for the link, yea only 5mm difference between the two for me. Also my old master piston looks like the new one on your thread. I have no idea what that's all about. I'll try the plate adjustment and see if the new style master was actually designed to even work for this car!

Rich9928p

I had a similar problem, had to replace the whole clutch, pressure plate and intermediate shaft. After that, it works like new.

Fabio421

Change that ball cup on the top of the bellhousing. If its worn and cracked like you said, it will contribute to the problem. It may not be the only problem based on your measurements but it isn't helping matters. They are very cheap. I believe the bushing is $14 at www.928GT.com You can change it with only a half dozen cuss words from the top.

Flybry07

Ok bell housing off and the H adjusters look fine. They measure out to just about a 1mm gap NOW WHAT?????

Move them all the way back? I'm not sure what that means? Does that mean to close the gap in the above pictures or open it?