GlenL

That means open or "towards the back." Stick in a screwdriver and twist. Then make sure the adjusted isn't crooked.

LT Texan

engage your clutch and see if it does this:

if it does, it's adjusted properly. If not, keep adjusting.

SharkSkin

I have some info on the clutch here that may help you understand the mechanism and how to adjust it.

LT Texan

Dave, what you wrote up is what finally made it click for me

mark kibort

Do they look like mine, post adjust? If they are indeed 1mm, you probably are ok. Do like Perez says and see if you get some movement of the intermediate plate. you might have a clutch disc that is torn up. I dont think that just the bushing on the ball can make that much difference something is not releasing. pry the cutch stuff back and see the int plate move and close up the 1mm gap. after that report back



mk

mark kibort

Dont push them all the way back, unless you cant see the plate moving.
the better way to push them back is a large flat head screw driver prying just to the right of the H adjusters in my picture. (use the flywheel and that portion of the intermediate plate and pry. this uses the intermediate plate to pust the adjusters that way they are pushed back parallel . this is important as well)

mark kibort

that was very cool!!!

your clutch must feel like butter!!

Now I wish i did all that anti sieze and etc

mk

Flybry07

FIXED!!!!! Drops into first and reverse with an index finger!

I was off on my first assesment as I did not realize how LITTLE the adjuster has to move to make a difference.

I went all the way forward (does not disengage at all) then all the way back ( drags) then right in between (perfect).

I'm definitely close to 1mm but I have the H adjusted so that there is an even gap between the H on the front and rear of the plate. I could see just the corner of the rear part of the H with a flashlight.




No grinding in between any gears but it sure is a slow shifting tranny!


THANK YOU to Mark for the info .... Im one more person that "all the way back: did not work for!




What a relief!! Thanks for all the input and help guys!

mark kibort

WOOOOHO!! great news.

Yep, all the way back will not work unless you get an unusual long movement out of the the master. BUT, any air or wear on the bushing and you will drag, and why wouldnt you? Going backwards (larger gap) only puts the int plates near the pressure plate. as long as the intermediate plate moves back 1mm or even a little less, everything is free to spin!

Great feeling when it is so easy to shift into gear isnt it?

Now, was that really a 1 mm gap you first measured, or was it like my picure. (more like 1.5mm)?

we are all happy for you! we know the pain!

Flybry07

Yes it feels great! I keep cringing when I go for reverse because I'm so used to the grind!!

Knowing how little the movement is now on the adjusters I would say that the gap was originally more like 1.75-2 mm. I now have it at probably less than 1mm maybe .75mm

It looks like my gap is tighter than in your pics but it's hard to tell without actually staring at it directly in person.

Thanks Again!!!

SharkSkin

Some info for future readers who may come across this thread in search:

False.

False. With new parts, "all the way back" results in about a 1mm gap, and that worked perfectly for me. If it results in a larger gap it is due to worn parts. You can no more say "all the way back never works" than you can say "all the way back always works". It may be that your experience, AFAIK with worn parts in all cases, is that it doesn't work. That does not mean it never works.

Having a bushing in good shape @ the release arm ball is absolutely crucial. If you do not, then the slave cylinder is too far extended with the clutch engaged. At the very least, the geometry of the assembly is such that if the ball cup is missing, the release arm will swing through a smaller arc when you go to disengage the clutch.

Always check the ball cup bushing first when the clutch fails to release. It's cheap and can be replaced with the car on the ground in most cases, by simply removing the lower air filter housing to gain access.

Actually yes, it does feel like butter. BTW, this brings up another issue... a worn or improperly lubed stub shaft can result in a dragging clutch. IMHO this should be inspected and replaced if worn, but at the very least lubed per WSM recommendation before any other parts(except ball cup bushing) are replaced.

mark kibort

Dave, did you not read the entire report and advice?

you are missing the point. new stuff, regardless of condition of the "stuff" will result in the H pattern gap to the limit of its design. Its INDEPENDENT of the components. So, in your words... "False" I have already said that i understand how "all the way back" works for some. It doesnt mean its correct or gives you the safety margin of adjsutment you deserve and was designed to provide! However, .75mm gap adjusment WILL work for ALL 928 twin disc clutches due to how the system does operate.

IF you found that pushing the H adjusters all the way rear ward worked, it only ment that your slave cylinder and clutch mechanisim was able to pull back the pressure plate far enough to not make contact, THATS ALL!

You said:
False. With new parts, "all the way back" results in about a 1mm gap, and that worked perfectly for me. If it results in a larger gap it is due to worn parts. You can no more say "all the way back never works" than you can say "all the way back always works". It may be that your experience, AFAIK with worn parts in all cases, is that it doesn't work. That does not mean it never works.
Now this is FALSE as well. the gap of the H adjusters is TOTALLY independant of the cutch parts. I dont like to see misinformation propagated. The gap has to do with the size of the H's on the intermediate plate. when its installed, it limits the rear ward movement of the intermediate plate via the flat springs. it will move rear ward until the intermedaiate plate hits the H stop limits or if the clutch is not fully engaged, it hits the rear disc butted up against the pressure plate.


worn parts (ball cup wear, slave cylinder bubbles in lines, etc) certainly do make any problem WORSE, but all that needs to happen is a very slight pull back of the pressure plate for a good clutch operation. this happens at .75mm or so.

Now as far as lube in the short shaft, yes, you need it so that the clutch discs can move via the pressure plate retraction and intermediate spring action driven movement.

I hope that makes the hundreds of posts of how the system operates a little more clear.

SharkSkin

I did, and, all posts considered, there are quite a few technical mistakes and confusing statements. What I wanted to do here was try to clarify some of those points.

So are you saying that the "H" adjusters are not clutch parts, or that they are not clutch components? Or are you saying that they don't wear? Either assertion is wrong IMHO.

Maybe those points are true, but more to the point, on a new IP all the way back is 1mm or a bit less and it works.

Then why do you keep trying to say that the "H" adjusters are not clutch parts?

Mark, If it felt like I was picking on you, my apologies; that's not what was intended. What I meant to do was clarify the issue, and what I did was point out that when unqualified statements are made such as the ones I quoted, they are not true. When the "qualification" is made by pointing to a thread with going on 200 posts of back and forth arguments that's not going to be helpful to later readers who may be doing a search. I am trying to help those future readers and more arguments ignoring the wear of the "H" adjusters and that part that plays in deciding how to adjust are counterproductive to that aim and only serve to further muddy the issue.

Worn parts, in the context that I was working with, is referencing worn "H" adjusters or worn IP where they make contact. The pictures that you show are of worn H adjusters. I am asserting that the reason that "all the way back" didn't work for you is because your "H" adjusters are worn. That also explains why, during your experimenting, you were able to get a >1mm gap.

mark kibort

Dave, I was actually reducing confusion by explaining how the system works. No, the H adjusters do not wear. any "wear" discussed is ONLY intheir holding power. the flaring of the "H" adjusters is someone using a screwdriver repeatedly to move them. the steel is fairly soft. originally the thougth was the int plate "slams against" the rear H adjusters. this is not true. as fast as you can push the pedal to the floor, the intermeadiate little flat springs pushes the IP rearward. 1mm in .5 second is not "slamming" in my book and doesnt create any wear. Again, wear is the ability of the adjusters to hold a setting.
Ive seen new ones and ones that are very very old. (the pictures I posted were on mine, scots, and a garbage can version, and I got a almost new one from Anderson that showed exactly the same gap. the H adjusters can move near 1.5-2mm max. I didnt measure exactly, but it is fairly wide.
ALL "H" adjusters on the new IPs can move this much. It wouldnt make sense to have the H adjusters all the way back. If you REALLY do this, you count on the pressure plate to move the IP forward to the flywheel. ALSO, if you can only move the adjsters back 1mm, that means you have hit the pressure plate and doing exactly what you dont want to do. (say you have a thick rear clutch disc). in this case, you would want .75mm or something so that there is room for the pressure plate to move out of the way of the IP that willl move back to meet the limits of the H adjuster. If it is old, it might work, if it is new, you might not get enough contact pressure because the back side of the H adjusters will be hitting the pressure plate and trying to stop the IP's forward movement. More than likely, the pressure plate can move the H adjusters forward as the discs wear, but why take a chance. ITS NOT the way the system was designed to be installed and adjusted. all you need is slightly less than 1mm gap. that will allow the intermediate plate to move rear ward with the pressure plate being pulled by the clutch lever. thats it. any more, and YOU RUN THE RISK of lack of dis-engagement of the IP with the pressure plate. I cant make it any more simple than that.

Please please please, tell me of the technical mistakes and the confusing points.

robot808

C'mon guys, can't we all just get along?